A year of significant transition
Dec 17, 10:14 PM | Harry Reid
In recent months, a very serious debate about the president’s policy in Iraq has taken place in our country. During this time, the president has reached out and spoken more directly than ever before about how we went to war and why it is important to achieve victory, a goal we all share.
While I appreciate the president’s increased candor, too much of the substance remains the same and the American people have still not heard what benchmarks we must meet along the way to know that progress is being made and that our brave troops can begin to come home. As the New Year approaches and the Iraqi people begin to form a new government, the president must provide his leadership in order to make next year a year of significant transition.
Comment
- Democrats,
Please keep drinking the Koolaid. While your sorry, conspiracy theory asses, keep losing elections.
Maybe because you can’t face the facts. The American public grew tired of 40 years of Democrat’s control of government. A new era is upon us, like it or not.Your party has no plan
for our country. Everything the President does is wrong to you . The majority according to the last election think otherwise. You could keep all your polling data. The only poll that matters is every four years when we elect a new President.
If your party had any balls, they would try to impeach him for what the press has reported about surveillance of so called Americans. Then we would find out how much Harry Reid and Nancy Polisi knew and why they did not go public with it, as outraged as they claim to be now. Maybe they could be indicted as a co-conspirators.
Please try to come to your senses. We are at war with an enemy that will kill as many Americans as they can. They don’t wear military uniforms.Some may live in our country. Your party is aiding and abetting them.
Harry Reid should know better, he supposedly represents me, I live in Las Vegas, Nv., we were identified in the Detroit terror cell trial as a prime target.Home movies were recovered of our hotels. Harry should be right up front and want all the intelligence information possible.Stop trying to gain a political advantage at the risk of my safety
— the gop won get over it Dec 17, 10:47 PM # - Harry, I was about to commend you and then the second paragraph showed up. Comment #1 says it all! Unless you and those of your ilk grow some cojones (that’s Spanish) and start supporting your constituents the demmies will never be in power.
— Kee Dec 17, 11:22 PM # - ***“In recent months, a very serious debate about the president’s policy in Iraq has taken place in our country.”***
Recent months??? You must have missed noticing the millions that protested prior to the invasion, and the Generals that advised against it and were consequently demoted or retired. When are you and your cohorts going to start telling the truth, Harry?
***“During this time, the president has reached out and spoken more directly than ever before about how we went to war and why it is important to achieve victory, a goal we all share.”***
Really? Thats GREAT news! Coupled with Cheney’s assertion that the insurgency is “in its last throes” then we can now rest assured that everything is just jim dandy and these bastards have stopped lying to us.
BTW, Reid,what the hell is “victory”??? Care to define it for us??? Does it mean the same thing as “mission accomplished”?
***“While I appreciate the president’s increased candor…..”***
Who cares about you “appreciating his candor” when the lying treasonous puke is illegally spying on American citizens. Do you “appreciate” that too?
***”..... too much of the substance remains the same and the American people have still not heard what benchmarks we must meet along the way to know that progress is being made and that our brave troops can begin to come home. As the New Year approaches and the Iraqi people begin to form a new government, the president must provide his leadership in order to make next year a year of significant transition.”***
The rest of your statement is just chickenshit say nothing political fluff, so I won’t comment on it.
Harry, where the hell is Phase Two?
And what do you intend to do about Bush’s flagrant disregard for the law and our constitution?
So…reread this post Harry. I pose three simple questions for you….
1)WHAT exactly is “victory” in Iraq?
2)Where the hell is phase two???
3)What do you intend to do about Bush’s criminal act of spying on American citizens?
Do you have the balls to answer them, or can I expect the same kind of response from you that Bush has given to Cindy Sheehan???
The people that pay your wages would like to know.
— Pissed Off American Dec 17, 11:25 PM # - Please try to come to your senses. We are at war with an enemy that will kill as many Americans as they can.
the gop won get over it Dec 18, 11:47 PM
Well said, tgwgoi. There are only two options in the war on terror. Side with the terrorists who will kill us, or side with the GOP who will kill our country.
How about we all just follow Bush over a cliff and end it quickly?
— Horkus Dec 17, 11:29 PM # - #1 – “conspiracy theory asses” Well smart ass, apparently you haven’t read the writing of your own anti-American heroes:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm demonstrates that this Iraq War has been planned for many years. Yes, 9/11 was a convenient excuse.
By the way, where is Bin Laden?
Harry, please tell us you are not letting this administration off the hook for pulling America into this war!
— DTW 06 Dec 17, 11:37 PM # - Harry Reid is Bin Laden in disguise.
— the gop won get over it Dec 17, 11:38 PM # - 2006 is about to begin. Get ready to inherit the backlash smart ass!
— DTW 06 Dec 17, 11:41 PM # - I see the white flag waving crowd paid no attention to the President’s admonition. I wonder if Democrats are just a bunch of sore losers or if they really want to see America destroyed?
— joro Dec 17, 11:52 PM # - NPR just reported that at the close of Cheney’s speech to the troops in Iraq today, there was no applause or cheering. Supposedly there was one lone whistle. The ONLY WAY that all these overamped kids could have expressed such a unified response is by direct command from a superior. If the command structure in Iraq is getting pissed off enough to actually diss the Vice President, than this is indeed going to get veeeeery interesting.
— Pissed Off American Dec 17, 11:56 PM # - #9.
Obviously you were never in the military. Were you another Clintonesgue draft dodger? Those of us who served our country know the protocol when a superior officer spoke to us. The lack of patriotism and lack of knowledge about America by liberals never ceases to amaze me.
— joro Dec 18, 01:33 AM # - Joro,
These candy ass liberals don’t understand anything. They still think they hold power.
I can’t wait for 2006 the Dem’s will pay the price at the polls.
They are like kids on the school yard waiting to have their lunch money taken from them.
— the gop won get over it Dec 18, 01:41 AM # - Like #2 said, I was thinking that Brother Reid had put his partisan ways behind him, but I was mistaken. When the US fought and won World War II, was there any whining about fixing milestones and benchmarks for victory. No, the only benchmark was total and complete victory and we cannot opbtain that by setting and arbitrary date to “cut and run” the way certain Vietnam veterans would have us to believe. As has been pointed out before, the Democratic party has morphed into a part of defeatists who are apparently only to happy to surrender to the terrorists. Why would anyone want to vote to surrender? Like President Bush pointed out:
“We do not create terrorists by fighting them. We invite terrorism by ignoring them and we will defeat the terrorists by capturing and killing them abroad…”
So, which is the best approach to fighting terrorism? If you believe the Defeato-crats, it’s to ignore the problem, like President Klinton did and to hope that the big attack happens on someone else’s watch. Thank heavens for President Bush who sees the danger now and has the balls to do something about it now, not later. As I often said during the 2004 elections, I didn’t want a president who would make the world safer for Americans, I wanted a president who would make the world more dangerous for terrorists. If you cannot see the difference in the two statements, let’s put it this way. The only good terrorists are a dead terrorists, whether in Iraq, Afghanistan or the United States.
— El-ahrairah Dec 18, 04:03 AM # - El-ahrairah ,
Amen my brother.
If Jimmy Carter had gone in and wiped out Iran back in 1979 we would not be talking about their nuclear capabilities today.
We would have set the tone for dealing with countries that encourage terrorism now.
— the gop won get over it Dec 18, 04:17 AM # - Saturday, June 04, 2005
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
Reid won’t be returning lobbyist contributions
Spokeswoman says senator sees no reason to return funds
By TONY BATT
STEPHENS WASHINGTON BUREAU
WASHINGTON—Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid will not return campaign contributions he received during the past five years from lobbyists and clients associated with Jack Abramoff, a Reid spokeswoman said Friday.
Federal officials are investigating whether Abramoff, a lobbyist, bilked millions of dollars from Indian gaming tribes.
Reid, D-Nev., and other Democrats have been sharply critical of House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, who has close ties to Abramoff.
About two-thirds of Abramoff-related campaign funds were given to Republicans. But The Washington Post reported that Abramoff also cultivated Democrats, including Reid.
Reid received $6,500 from Abramoff’s associates at the Greenberg Traurig law and lobbying firm from 1999 through 2004, The Washington Post reported Friday.
During the same period, Reid received $40,500 from Indian tribes that were Abramoff clients, the paper reported based on research of federal records.
Reid does not know Abramoff, Reid spokeswoman Tessa Hafen said.
But Abramoff hired Eddie Ayoob, who was Reid’s legislative counsel until 2002 and was assistant finance director on Reid’s 1998 Senate campaign.
Ayoob held a fund-raising reception for Reid at the offices of Greenberg Traurig, according to The Washington Post.
Calls to Ayoob on Friday were not returned. Ayoob left Greenberg Traurig earlier this year to join Barnes & Thornburg, another Washington law firm.
Hafen said Ayoob has not done any fund-raising for Reid this year. But, she added, “there is no reason to expect that he will not continue to raise money.”
Reid declined an interview request Friday. Hafen said he sees no reason to return the money.
“Indian tribes have the same opportunity as anyone else to participate in the political process,” Hafen said. “There is no reason to even make that suggestion.”
Federal investigators are examining millions of dollars that Abramoff collected from Indian tribes for lobbying and public relations work.
Reid received his contributions while serving on the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. He gave up that assignment after he was elected minority leader late last year.
Ernie Stevens, Jr., chairman of the National Indian Gaming Association, said he does not think money from gaming tribes has made a big difference with Reid.
“We don’t always agree with Senator Reid, but I think he has been consistent on Indian gaming issues, and I don’t think the contributions have changed his posture on any of those issues,” Stevens said. “This is all part of the political process and we have a right to participate.”
— US Congress 'most corrupt in history' Dec 18, 05:42 AM # - U.S. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid called the Republican-led Congress “the most corrupt in history” on Sunday, and distanced himself from lobbyist Jack Abramoff, at the center of an escalating probe.
“Don’t lump me in with Jack Abramoff. This is a Republican scandal,” Reid told Fox News Sunday, saying he never received any money from Abramoff.
Reid, like many members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, has received campaign contributions from Abramoff clients. Some lawmakers have returned those donations, but Reid gave no indication he would do so.
Sorry Harry, my mistake I thought this was about Harry Reid Senator from Nevada
— US Congress 'most corrupt in history' Dec 18, 05:48 AM # - For those wondering what happened to Bin Laden here is Harry Reids take on it:
Reid thinks Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan earthquake
Speaking on News 4’s Nevada News Makers,Reid says he was informed that Bin Laden may have died in the October temblor.
“I heard today that he may have died in the earthquake that they had in Pakistan, seriously.” Reid says that if that is the case, “that’s good for the world.”
When asked about Bin Laden during an exclusive News 4 interview, Reid said, “I’m not sure he is alive anymore. I think perhaps the earthquake took him down. I certainly hope so.”
— the gop won get over it Dec 18, 06:07 AM # - That’s because Bush has no intentions of leaving Iraq. He went there to stay there. It’s a triple barrel policy: Give Israel whatever they want using the same hatred propaganda that was used against them by the NAZIs, and secondly his BigOil relatives have to have something to do. These same kooks also participate in the war machine, and we know there is profit in that.
Thirdly, Wolfowitz as the head of the World Bank will, um, “help” poor countries, by investigating what they have as natural resources as collateral.
Putin kicked him out. LOL.
As long as we know Bush never intends to leave Iraq, we can’t let up until we are out of Iraq.
“Globalization” means, what we are doing to Iraq, and the phoney argument is that these are “bad people;” “inferior.” It’s sick. Bush is a madman.
Kathleen
— Kathleen M. Dickson Dec 18, 06:26 AM # - Yes Dingy, it will be a year of significant transition. The American public are going to continue to come to the stark realization that the donkey party has nothing of substance to offer them. Especially so when it come to national security. The demos have been on the wrong side of history for 35 years now. And you continue on the same road.
So Dingy, thanks to your help, the transition is going to be the GOP adding seats in both chambers of Congress.
Keep flapping your lips Dingy, you’re helping the Republicans every day.
— John in CA Dec 18, 06:53 AM # - #12 – Using WWII as a comparison to Iraq is laughable, if it weren’t so tragic for the 2,100+ American dead you are so willing to sacrifice. Do you have any family over there?
While we are speaking of WWII, whose grandfather helped fund the Nazis up until 1943?
#8 – As far a “white flag waving” I doubt anyone here argued that we should go into Afghanistan. How are things going over there?
It has been stated by US military sources that only 5% of Iraqi insurgents are foreign fighters. The neocon answer to making this a war on terror is to label every fighter a terrorist.
So, as usual the intellectually dishonest folks like the lunchyard bullies (who seem to have taken over this blog) resort to name calling and the black and white world of their draft dodging leaders. In the mean time real terrorists are given safe haven and funding in many parts of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and the Taliban is re-emerging in Afghanistan.
Wake up punks, and quit spitting on the constitution. That’s right, you don’t care about the constitution, its power and Bush you worship. It must be reassuing to live in your B&W fantasy land. Just don’t try to tell the rest of us it makes us safer!
Have a nice day:)
— DTW 06 Dec 18, 07:04 AM # - #10, joro, were you in the millitary? When?
#11, yes we’ll see at the polls just like you lost gubernatorial seats, you’ll loose even more in the congress.
#12, camparing this to ww2 is not appropiate.
This was a war of choice.
“If the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded.”
Noah Webster – (1758-1843) American patriot and scholar, author of the 1806 edition of the dictionary that bears his name, the first dictionary of American English usage.
— Jesus was a LIBERAL! Dec 18, 08:06 AM # - First they ignore you,
then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you,
and then you win! – Ghandi
— Daddy Dec 18, 08:13 AM # - John McCain: “Presidents are not ordinary citizens. They are extraordinary, in that they are vested with so much more authority and power than the rest of us. We have a right; indeed, we have an obligation, to hold them strictly accountable to the rule of law.”
excerpt from President Eisenhower’s farewell address to the nation, January 1961
“In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or anyone else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about anyone else.” ~ Teddy Roosevelt, Kansas City Star,7 May 1918
— Jesus was a LIBERAL! Dec 18, 08:16 AM # - “still not heard what benchmarks we must meet”, what the hell is GiveEmHell Harry talking about. Either he has not read the Plan for Victory or he is dumber than a box of rocks. There are specific benchmarks of success based on results. Of course, dems want benchmarks based on some arbitrary time table, which is just plain stupid. Benchmarks based on results is a tool to evaluate progress, so that you can do what works and correct what doesn’t. Benchmarks based on time is a cry baby’s way of saying I can’t take anymore, when can we get out. Thank GOD Kerry lost. BTW, whoever talked to the media about NSA’s effort to moniter and set up surveillance against terrorist efforts is a traitor and ought to be hung. My guess is that Dingy was the ring leader of his little circus.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 08:21 AM # - Little man panics when asked about Abramoff
Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid called the Republican-led Congress ‘’the most corrupt in history’’ on Sunday, and distanced himself from lobbyist Jack Abramoff, at the center of an escalating probe. The Justice Department is investigating whether Jack Abramoff directed illegal payoffs to lawmakers, including Rep. Tom DeLay of Texas /break/ Reid, like many members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, has received campaign contributions from Abramoff clients.
Reid sounds little nervous about this. That’s probably because you could count the number of honest Democrats that hve been in Congress the last 20 years on one hand and still have enough fingers left to flash a victory sign.
Deepthinker’s speech to congress:
“This is, without any doubt, the most irresponsible, mean-spirited, and partisan opposition we have seen in the history of the Republic. Week after week, we hear lying smear after lying smear from a Democratic party with no constructive proposals nor the slightest respect for truth….”
Not to worry about the $50K from Abramoff. Reid will just return the money and deny any wrongdoing. The press will hail Reid as a man of honesty and the $50K as a non-story.
Reid doesn’t know what day it is and he’s telling me about history? Alfred E Reid What, me think ?
The corruption factor went up exponentially when Hitlery became a member.
Where is the Barrett report???All anyone needs to do is follow the money. DeLay’s receipt of donation money from Abramoff has been labeled the crime of the season. However, it’s pretty obvious that Harry Reid and other Democratic members of Congress have also received donations from Jack Abramoff. Of course, THEIR cash receipts are supposed to be ‘hidden.’ It is no doubt given to a firm, which transfers it to a person, who gives it to an organization, which gives it to a company …..... which donates it to Reid. Then, Harry can state, as he did here …... ‘Abramoff gave me no money.’
Harry, my boy, we are not as stupid as you would like to think. I fully suspect this accusation against Tom DeLay is going to jump back and bite you and other liberals in your leftist behinds.
— Porcius Dec 18, 08:22 AM # - #23,
I suspect you are correct on all counts!
Remember when Harry attempted to discredit a Judicial nominee by inferring there was evidence against him in a FBI file?
— Kee Dec 18, 08:25 AM # - A year of significant transition yes Harry from
Abramoff pocket into yours, fess up little fellah !!
Nevada needs to look for a new Senator
we need to lynch a few Commie libbers this year .
Harry can you say hypocrite ,practice it.
— Porcius Dec 18, 08:32 AM # - Nevada needs to look for a new Senator
we need to lynch a few Commie libbers this year .
-Porcius
It figures that you guys are for lynching! I guess you’d support Hitler if he was selected president too!
— Jesus was a LIBERAL! Dec 18, 08:38 AM # - Oh dear, Harry. I believe you’ve hit a nerve. There are even more trolls than usual. I do think it’s time to dust off the rules for impeachment. It is rather unusual for the subject of impeachment to admit to the crime on national television. Perhaps he means to rely on shear stupidity as a defense.
utahgirl
— utahgirl Dec 18, 08:40 AM # - Good point #25. Harry is not concerned about the safety of America, except for his idealistic version of it. Can you feel 2006 slipping away from them?
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 08:40 AM # - #27…..Harry was all for “lynching” when he misled people about the Judicial nominee, also when he tried to find Libby guilty without a trial! Those two items are the tip of the iceberg with dirty Nevadan politics.
— Kee Dec 18, 08:42 AM # - http://www.cannonfire.blogspot.com/
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 08:43 AM # - #28 Perhaps he means to rely on shear stupidity as a defense.
It has worked for Dems for years. Hmmm…it just might work. Except he is too smart for that.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 08:43 AM # - WHERE”S PHASE 2? DEMAND IT NOW AND ALERT THE MSM!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 08:46 AM # - Upon further consideration, I like Murtha’s plan to retreat. Let’s retreat to Iran and Syria.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 08:51 AM # - #34, I think that’s Cheney’s plan!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 08:56 AM # - You go where the threat is rather than let it come here like on 9-11. Thank GOD for your first amendment rights, Bill. When people like you and Harry create a blog, you only speak the truth about who YOU are when you spew your vebal vomit and it gets on my white collar shirt.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 09:04 AM # - #36 you mean like you’re doing now? You are an elitist?
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 09:21 AM # - If your definition of elitist is one who believes they deserve a higher standard and quality of “rights” than others, you are sadly mistaken. If you feel I am an elitist because I believe the quality of my words are correct/factual and your words are garbage, then I would have to agree. I am sorry if that is what you consider to be an elitist. I value and fight for your right to say what ever you wish, no matter how wrong.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 09:33 AM # - BTW, I paint houses for a living. I said “white collar” because that is what you believe anyway. No matter what the administration says, you go on believing what you want to. Harry Reid’s latest blog entry is the perfect example. He has selective hearing.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 09:37 AM # - You lie! You said white collar because you are! Paint houses my ass! What a maroon!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 09:44 AM # - See what I mean!! A house painter could never vote for Bush, right? Why, I must own oil company!! Pathetic.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 09:51 AM # - I know you came her to advertise your blog, but you should quit while you are behind. You keep this up and any traffic you have already established will diminish to zero.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 10:04 AM # - A house painter indeed could vote for Bush. But first you say you’re white collar, then you say you paint houses for a living. Well which is it flip-flopper? Can you not see that you lost your credibility? Of course not repugnantcons do not value integrity, only money.
Go ahead and sign in under one of your other screennames and try again.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 10:06 AM # - And we know you came here to earn your propaganda money!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 10:10 AM # - You can go ahead and attack liberals if it makes you feel better. But you might want to ponder the fact that the Founding Fathers of this country were liberals. The liberal administrations of Wilson and Roosevelt led the United States to victory in two world wars. Liberals are patriots, and they always have been.
1) We want an administration that makes decisions based upon FACTS. We don’t have that, we have an administration that is makes decisions based upon rigid ideological beliefs.
2) We want an American government that takes responsibility for its mistakes. We don’t have that. We have an administration that conceals its mistakes and demonizes anyone who dares criticize it.
3) We want an American government that respects the patriotism of people who disagree with current government policies. We don’t have that. We have an administration that blames EVERY problem on “the left” or the “liberal media” or “the evildoers.”
4) We want an American government that considers the truth a valuable tool for governing. We dont have that. We have an administration that considers the truth an obstacle to overcome as it pursues its covert agendas.
5) We want an American government that honors the service and sacrifices of our soldiers by leading a logical, coherent war on global terrorism. We don’t have that. We have an administration that has been obsessed about Iraq since Day 1 and is fighting the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place.
6) We want an American government that understands that democracies cannot survive without political compromise. We don’t have that. This administration projects self-righteous omniscience and considers political compromise a sign of weakness.
I respect what you are trying to accomplish in Iraq, however a Muslim “nation” of 22,000,000 people cannot be stabilized by 130,000 foreign soldiers. Tragically, while you are saving a few trees, the whole forest is burning down around you. Our misadventure in Iraq is making the global situation worse, not better.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 10:15 AM # - Tee hee. You are just palin weird and grasping for straws. You say I lost credibility, but you have gained none. I was making a point about the dem’s assumptions of conservatives and you continue to fail at understanding the point. I would love to keep this up all day, but I “actually” have houses to go paint. I mean, drill for oil, bath in money, take over nations, dodge taxes, lynch black people, stamp on gay people, convert satatinists and whatever else stereo type you refuse to let go of. Trust me. I’ll check back later after my day is done. You continue to dig your hole and I’ll be back to laugh. Liberal’s stupidity would be comical if it were not so dangerous.
— Kerry Lost Dec 18, 10:20 AM # - Let’s see… would it be stripes or dayglo orange for a convicted president?
utahgirl
— utahgirl Dec 18, 10:43 AM # - These neocon creeps all have skeletons in their closets, they have been so hubrissed-up with their delusion of power, like Delay, feeling immune to justice because they assume they control the Justice Department and the courts and all the rights to Congressional inquiry.
But Justice has a different master than they imagine, and it moves against the ungodly at no man’s command. When Justice demands a reckoning, those skeletons will be rattled, and no political party power can resist it.
Especially the Republicans, now they’ve got the RNC monkeys hounding this blog, if they really want to see the face of terrorism, in the eyes of most of the world, they should go look in the mirror.
Warmongers claiming Jesus, economic monopolists claiming free enterprise, fascists claiming democrocy.
Where are the real Republicans any more? Fiscal conservatives for small government? Yeah, right…
And by the way, the GOP didn’t win, they cheated.
All you BushCult brainwashed orks and trolls are afraid to even look at the mounting proof of it, you just call us sore losers instead of arguing the obvious facts.
You were all willing to surrender the constitution at the drop of the word “mushroom cloud.” You are all so scard of Bin Laden, you made him a legend in the Muslim world.
Cowards and hypocrites, you just cut and run from the very freedoms our ancestors fought and died for.
You gave up precious freedoms HERE AT HOME because you were afraid of Bin Laden.
Cowards. What are you willing to give up next for this warmongering crowd, you sons and daughters?
You spent so much time attacking Clinton in your partisan impeachment, our entire nation was put at risk from the distraction. And now you want to blame everyone but the responsible parties.
The Truth stands alone, and none of you can shake it. You can only deny it.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 11:05 AM # - One of the biggest complaints I have ever had about President Bush is his secrecy, fortunately for all of us he seems to have given up some ground on this issue.
Although congress still needs to rain in on his powers. I have nothing wrong with a powerful president, but when that president questions my American rights I begin to wonder.
JJ Glendenning
— JJ Glendenning Dec 18, 11:09 AM # - Oh my goodness! That was a very amusing news conference. I guess Saddamosama bin Forgotten.
utahgirl
— utahgirl Dec 18, 11:38 AM # - To our friends from the RNC;
The GOP can’t win an honest election anymore, they must cheat on a massive scale just to stay in office.
Most of you know that for a fact. A few of you feel quite ashamed of that fact, but you are trapped in a circle of obligation that you never imagined was part of the deal. You signed on because you had ideals and integrity and you wanted to use them to help the party.
Now, instead of playing good politics and winning with superior qualities, you conjur up daily lies, and send them out through trolls and orks across the airwaves and blogosphere.
What moral code does that come from? At least admit to honor among thieves, but don’t give me that “values” crap, you Republicans made their peace with hypocrisy long ago. I believe many of you would galdly take part in a rigged election just because you think you are protecting Democracy from the evil influence of the Democrats.
How ignorant, and self-flagellating, can you get? You mock Democracy itself by acquiescing to this deception.
There is too much proof of election tampering for it to go unresolved, and it is my guess there’s more than one hard drive that can divulge the truth… And more than one conspirator who regrets their part in the deception and the conspiracy to perpetrate and perpetuate it..
Why can’t election officials look into these Diebolc voting machines, if they aren’t rigged?
Simple logic dictates they’re hiding something. Otherwise, they would be glad to be scrutinized, just to shut us all up. If it was the other way around, with Democrats winning in questionable results, you would all be screaming “treason.”
HYPOCRITES!!
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 11:42 AM # - The trolls (troll) here are (is) attempting to “jam” the threads with this bullshit they are casting. I strongly suggest you attempt to IGNORE the more obvious inanities they are offering as distractions. As much as I am disgusted by Reid’s mewling comment and his unwillingness to go beyond the opportunistic grandstanding we saw in his Senate Charade, the RW propaganda machine must be intimidated by him, or they would not be trolling this site with such fervor. If you continue to engage these assholes they will literally destroy this website. Again, I suggest you ignore them.
Anyone notice how rare the truly “honest and sincere” citizen’s post in support of Bush is becoming??? We see less and less thoughtful postings in support of Bush or his policy, and see more and more of these types of empty blatherings by the obvious trolls, such as this thread is mostly comprised of.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 11:42 AM # - “Simple logic dictates they’re hiding something. Otherwise, they would be glad to be scrutinized, just to shut us all up. If it was the other way around, with Democrats winning in questionable results, you would all be screaming “treason.””
John, have you ever seen HARRY utter the word “Diebold”? Hillary? Kerry??? As far as I know, Conyers is the only one to have made an issue of this. I’m telling you man, you better drop this partisan horseshit and start realizing that BOTH sides of the fence are covered with slime.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 11:48 AM # - This thread needs to be more like conyers blog, where some civility is required or you’re banned.
— Jesus was a LIBERAL! Dec 18, 11:56 AM # - Again, to our friends at the RNC, specifically;
Joro’s suggestion that “we” want to see America somehow destroyed by “The Terrorists” disregards one of history’s most fertile lessons.
No great world-power has ever been overthrown from without, they all collapsed from within, doomed by their own hubris. To suggest that a handful of Arabs could do such damage is sensationalism at best and outright thought reform at worst.
Start adding up the indictments, the charges and allegations and investigations, and there is clearly an implosion going on in America’s ruling party, and it is not foreign terrorists who are creating it, unless Osama has been hiding on K Street.
They have done it all by themselves, with with a lot of help from their lobbyist friends, all of them demanding Quid Pro Quotas.
If their own members weren’t such blind loyalists and stood up to their felonious leaders, the Republican Party might not have started its collapse. But even the rank and file are williing to cheat, because the option (honest democracy) doesn’t meet their needs.
Unfortunately, their very political strength depended on heavy-handed tactics and bullying their agendas, insider deals and illegal junkets to St. Andrews. Now those who spawned these profane constructs, like Tom Delay and Karl Rove, are in the hot spotlight of public scrutiny. The very journalists they used as pawns are now waking up and turning back on them.
So without their “ends justifies the means” bullies at the helm, the Republican ship of fools careens back and forth across the waves, troughing and tossing like a cork on the ocean of public opinion.
If they give the wheel back to someone like Delay, they will surely be swamped and tipped.
It may already be too late.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 12:03 PM # - ECHELON please check the date of this 60 minutes broadcast Bill Clinton was the President way didn’t he put an end to it , if it was so wrong?
60 MINUTES
Television Broadcast February 27, 2000
ECHELON; WORLDWIDE CONVERSATIONS BEING RECEIVED BY THE ECHELON SYSTEM MAY FALL INTO THE WRONG HANDS AND INNOCENT PEOPLE MAY BE TAGGED AS SPIES
STEVE KROFT, co-host:
If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there’s a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country’s largest intelligence agency. The top-secret Global Surveillance Network is called Echelon, and it’s run by the National Security Agency and four English-speaking allies: Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand.
The mission is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon’s computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world.
How does it work, and what happens to all the information that’s gathered? A lot of people have begun to ask that question, and some suspect that the information is being used for more than just catching bad guys.
(Footage of satellite; person talking on cell phone; fax machine; ATM being used; telephone pole and wires; radio towers)
KROFT: (Voiceover) We can’t see them, but the air around us is filled with invisible electronic signals, everything from cell phone conversations to fax transmissions to ATM transfers. What most people don’t realize is that virtually every signal radiated across the electromagnetic spectrum is being collected and analyzed.
How much of the world is covered by them?
Mr. MIKE FROST (Former Spy): The entire world, the whole planet—covers everything. Echelon covers everything that’s radiated worldwide at any given instant.
KROFT: Every square inch is covered.
Mr. FROST: Every square inch is covered.
(Footage of Frost; listening post)
KROFT: (Voiceover) Mike Frost spent 20 years as a spy for the CSE, the Canadian equivalent of the National Security Agency, and he is the only high-ranking former intelligence agent to speak publicly about the Echelon program. Frost even showed us one of the installations where he says operators can listen in to just about anything.
Mr. FROST: Everything from—from data transfers to cell phones to portable phones to baby monitors to ATMs…
KROFT: Baby monitors?
Mr. FROST: Oh, yeah. Baby monitors give you a lot of intelligence.
(Footage of listening posts)
KROFT: (Voiceover) This listening post outside Ottawa is just part of a network of spy stations, which are hidden in the hills of West Virginia, in remote parts of Washington state, even in plain view among the sheep pastures of Europe.
This is Menwith Hill Station in the Yorkshire countryside of Northern England. Even though we’re on British soil, Menwith Hill is an American base operated by the National Security Agency. It’s believed to be the largest spy station in the world.
(Footage of Menwith Hill Station; aerial footage of NSA headquarters; supercomputers)
KROFT: (Voiceover) Inside each globe are huge dishes which intercept and download satellite communications from around the world. The information is then sent on to NSA headquarters at Fort Meade, Maryland, where acres of supercomputers scan millions of transmissions word by word, looking for key phrases and, some say, specific voices that may be of major significance.
Mr. FROST: Everything is looked at. The entire take is looked at. And the computer sorts out what it is told to sort out, be it, say, by key words such as ‘bomb’ or ‘terrorist’ or ‘blow up,’ to telephone numbers or-or a person’s name. And people are getting caught, and-and that’s great.
(Footage of National Security Agency; Carlos the Jackal; two Libyans in court)
KROFT: (Voiceover) The National Security Agency won’t talk about those successes or even confirm that a program called Echelon exists. But it’s believed the international terrorist Carlos the Jackal was captured with the assistance of Echelon, and that it helped identify two Libyans the US believes blew up Pan-Am Flight 103.
Is it possible for people like you and I, innocent civilians, to be targeted by Echelon?
Mr. FROST: Not only possible, not only probable, but factual. While I was at CSE, a classic example: A lady had been to a school play the night before, and her son was in the school play and she thought he did a-a lousy job. Next morning, she was talking on the telephone to her friend, and she said to her friend something like this, ‘Oh, Danny really bombed last night,’ just like that. The computer spit that conversation out. The analyst that was looking at it was not too sure about what the conversation w-was referring to, so erring on the side of caution, he listed that lady and her phone number in the database as a possible terrorist.
KROFT: This is not urban legend you’re talking about. This actually happened?
Mr. FROST: Factual. Absolutely fact. No legend here.
(Vintage footage of Fonda; Spock; King; congressional hearing; the Capitol building)
KROFT: (Voiceover) Back in the 1970s, the NSA was caught red-handed spying on anti-war protesters like Jane Fonda and Dr. Benjamin Spock, and it turns out they had been recording the conversations of civil rights leaders like Martin Luther King in the 1960s. When Congress found out, it drafted strict, new laws prohibiting the NSA from spying on Americans, but today, there’s enough renewed concern about potential abuses that Congress is revisiting the issue.
Representative BOB BARR (Republican, Georgia): (From C-SPAN) One such project known as Project Echelon engages in the interception of literally millions of communications involving United States citizens.
(Footage of Barr; NSA sign; Goss and Kroft)
KROFT: (Voiceover) But even members of Congress have trouble getting information about Echelon. Last year, the NSA refused to provide internal memoranda on the program to Porter Goss, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.
What exactly was it that you requested?
Representative PORTER GOSS (Chairman, House Intelligence Committee): Well, I can’t get too specific about it, but there was some information about procedures in how the NSA people would employ some safeguards, and I wanted to see all the correspondence on that to make sure that those safeguards were being completely honored. At that point, one of the counsels of the NSA said, ‘Well, we don’t think we need to share this information with the Oversight Committee.’ And we said, ‘Well, we’re sorry about that. We do have the oversight, and you will share the information with us,’ and they did.
(Footage of Goss and Kroft)
KROFT: (Voiceover) But only after Goss threatened to cut the NSA’s budget. He still believes, though, that the NSA does not eavesdrop on innocent American citizens.
If the NSA has capabilities to screen enormous numbers of telephone calls, faxes, e-mails, whatnot, how do you filter out the American conversations, and how do you—how can you be sure that no one is listening to those conversations?
Rep. GOSS: We do have methods for that, and I am relatively sure that those procedures are working very well.
(Footage of Madsen; epic.org Web site; Amnesty International gathering; Greenpeace members in a boat; Princess Diana)
KROFT: (Voiceover) Others aren’t so sure. Wayne Madsen works with a group called the Electronic Privacy Information Center, which is suing the NSA to get a copy of the documents that were finally turned over to Congressman Goss. Madsen, a former naval officer who used to work for the NSA, is concerned about reports that Echelon has listened in on groups like Amnesty International and Greenpeace. Last year, the NSA was forced to acknowledge that it had more than 1,000 pages of information on the late Princess Diana.
Mr. WAYNE MADSEN (Electronic Privacy Information Center): Princess Diana, in her campaign against land mines, of course, was completely at odds with US policy, so her activities were of tremendous interest to-to the US policy-makers, of course, and-and, therefore, to the National Security Agency eavesdroppers.
KROFT: Do you think the—the NSA only monitored her conversations that involved land mines?
Mr. MADSEN: Well, when NSA extends the big drift net out there, it’s possible that they’re picking up more than just her conversations concerning land mines. What they do with that intelligence, who knows?
(Footage of newspaper headlines; Menwith Hill Station)
KROFT: (Voiceover) In the early 1990s, some of Diana’s personal conversations, as well as those of some others associated with the royal family, mysteriously appeared in the British tabloids. Could some of those conversations have been picked up by that US spy station in England?
Mr. MADSEN: (Voiceover) There’s been some speculation that Menwith Hill may have been involved in the intercepts of those communications as—as well.
And how-how could that be legal? Well, British intelligence could say, ‘Well, we didn’t eavesdrop on members of the British royal family. These happened to be conducted by, you know, one of our strategic partners.’ And, therefore, they would skirt the-skirt the British laws against intercepts of communications.
(Footage of National Security Agency sign)
KROFT: (Voiceover) The US admits it often shares intelligence with its allies, but never to get around the law.
Mr. FROST: Never, Steve, will governments admit that they can circumvent legislation by asking another country to do for them what they can’t do for themselves. They will never admit that. But that sort of thing is so easy to do. It is so commonplace.
KROFT: Do you have any first-hand experience?
Mr. FROST: I do have first-hand experience where CSE did some dirty work for Margaret Thatcher when she was prime minister. She…
KROFT: What kind of dirty work?
Mr. FROST: Well, at the time, she had two ministers that she said, quote, “They weren’t on side,” unquote, and she wanted to find out, not what these ministers were saying, but what they were thinking. So my boss, as a matter of fact, went to McDonald House in London and did intercept traffic from these two ministers. The British Parliament now have total deniability. They didn’t do anything. They know nothing about it. Of course they didn’t do anything; we did it for them.
(Footage of Newsham and Kroft)
KROFT: (Voiceover) One of the few people to acknowledge that they have listened to conversations over the Echelon system is Margaret Newsham, who worked at Menwith Hill in England back in 1979. She had a top secret security clearance.
So who-you-you knew that conversations were being pulled off satellites.
Ms. MARGARET NEWSHAM: Yes. But to my knowledge, all it was going to be would be like Russian, Chinese or, y—you know, foreign.
(Footage of Newsham)
KROFT: (Voiceover) But soon, she says, she discovered it wasn’t only the Russians and the Chinese who were the targets.
Ms. NEWSHAM: I walked into the office building and a friend said, ‘Come over here and listen to-to this thing.’ Andand he had headphones on, so I took the headphones and I listened to it, and-and I looked at him and I’m going, ‘That’s an American.’ And he said, ‘Well, yeah.’
KROFT: And it was definitely an American voice?
Ms. NEWSHAM: It was definitely an American voice, and it was a voice that was distinct. And I said, ‘Well, who is that?’ And he said it was Senator Strom Thurmond. And I go, ‘What?’
KROFT: Do you think this kind of stuff goes on?
Mr. FROST: Oh, of course it goes on. Been going on for years. Of course it goes on.
KROFT: You mean the National Security Agency spying on politicians in…
Mr. FROST: Well, I—I…
KROFT: ...in the United States?
Mr. FROST: Sounds ludicrous, doesn’t it? Sounds like the world of fiction. It’s not; not the world of fiction. That’s the way it works. I’ve been there. I was trained by you guys.
Rep. GOSS: Certainly possible that something like that could happen. The question is: What happened next?
KROFT: What do you mean?
Rep. GOSS: It is certainly possible that somebody overheard me in a conversation. I have just been in Europe. I have been talking to people on a telephone and elsewhere. So it’s very possible somebody could have heard me. But the question is: What do they do about it? I mean, I cannot stop the dust in the ether; it’s there. But what I can make sure is that it’s not abused—the capability’s not abused, and that’s what we do.
KROFT: Much of what’s known about the Echelon program comes not from enemies of the United States, but from its friends. Last year, the European Parliament, which meets here in Strasbourg, France, issued a report listing many of the Echelon’s spy stations around the world and detailing their surveillance capabilities. The report says Echelon is not just being used to track spies and terrorists. It claims the United States is using it for corporate and industrial espionage as well, gathering sensitive information on European corporations, then turning it over to American competitors so they can gain an economic advantage.
(Footage of report; plane; report; Raytheon sign; Ford and Kroft)
KROFT: (Voiceover) The European Parliament report alleges that the NSA ‘lifted all the faxes and phone calls’ between the European aircraft manufacturer Airbus and Saudi Arabian Airlines, and that the information helped two American companies, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas, win a $ 6 billion contract. The report also alleges that the French company Thomson-CSF lost a $ 1.3 billion satellite deal to Raytheon the same way. Glen Ford is the member of the European Parliament who commissioned the report.
Mr. GLEN FORD (European Parliament Member): It’s not the-if you want, the Echelon system that’s the problem. It’s how it’s being used. Now, you know, if we’re catching the bad guys, we’re completely in favor of that, whether it’s you catching the bad guys, us or anybody else. We don’t like the bad guys. What we’re concerned about is that some of the good guys in my constituency don’t have jobs because US corporations got an inside track on-on some global deal.
(Footage of encryption machine; Clinton and several men walking; Ford)
KROFT: (Voiceover) Increasingly, European governments and corporations are turning to something called encryption, a system of scrambling phone, fax or e-mail transmissions so that the Echelon system won’t be able to read them. The US is worried about the technology falling into the hands of terrorists or other enemies. The Clinton administration has been trying to persuade the Europeans to give law enforcement and intelligence agencies a key with which they can unlock the code in matters of national security. Glen Ford, the European parliamentarian, agrees it’s a good idea, in principle.
Mr. FORD: However, if we are not assured that that is n-not going to be abused, then I’m afraid we may well take the view, ‘Sorry, no.’ In the United Kingdom, it’s traditional for people to leave a key under the doormat if they want the neighbors to come in and-and do something in their house. Well, we’re neighbors, and we’re not going to leave the electronic key under the doormat if you’re going to come in and steal the family silver.
KROFT: Y—you said that you think that this is basically a good idea, that we have to do this at some…
Mr. FROST: Oh, in a perfect world, we would not need the NSA, we would not need CSE. But, you know, we have to. We have to in the areas of terrorism, drug lords. We-we’d be lost without them. My concern is no accountability and nothing-no safety net in place for the innocent people that fall through the cracks. That’s my concern.
KROFT: Accountability isn’t the only issue that’s of interest to Congress. There is growing concern within the intelligence community that encryption and the worldwide move to fiber-optic cables, which Echelon may not be able to penetrate, will erode the NSA’s ability to gather the intelligence vital to national security. The agency is looking for more money to develop new technologies.
————————————————————————————————————————
— the gop won get over it Dec 18, 12:27 PM # - POA;
“There is none righteous, no not one.”
It doesn’t just mean politicians, but I want you to know, I agree with you in your distrust of both party’s motives. That doesn’t mean I can’t join one of them and work for better days.
Like I said, degrees of hypocrisy are all we have to measure by, there is no one “good” or “bad,” just degrees between the extremes.
You are right about your issues, but you are wrong about your loyalties. Your anger and your indignation can only be assuaged by finding a place within, rather than without, to work from. I know this from my own evolution in democracy.
Just like the Republicans are imploding from within, you can use the Democratic Party to build from within.
POA, please note, very carefully, these next few words;
There are lots of good Democrats who feel just like you do, but very few Republicans.
If you try to sweep the floor clean with an Independent broom, you will just move the dust around and give the Republicans more access to power.
Didn’t you understand what I meant about taking this Washington dragon on at the head?
You slap-fight with the tail, (rank and file Democrats) while you should be bearing down courageously against the fire-breathing head, that neocon war-machine that threatens to consume the whole world in war-for-profit, a perpetual conflict in the name of money.
Don’t just blog around urging the tail to master the head.
Do something meaningful. Join a political party and work from within. Otherwise, your words, no matter how right you might be, get lost in the winds of futlity.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 12:28 PM # - Mr Reid (or anyone else here for that matter)
Please define “War”, “Victory” and “Goal”.
As an aside:
At least you look good in the papers, sir.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051218/pl_nm/congress_ethics_dc
I would think a real man would do some investigating on where that money came from, and if it was obtained illegally or unethically, one would certainly hope that you would have the decency to admit that you have made a mistake.
We sure wouldn’t hold it against you.
— Sean Dec 18, 12:30 PM # - Post 56 is proof they are getting desperate. Its boring and meaningless, its an old ProTroll trick to paste in tedious and obscure, outdated references, to keep everyone else from reading through this blog. They figure if they can make it boring and tedious then all the activity will subside.
This isn’t Blogs for Bush.
You are talking to intelligent people who think for themselves. A link to the story would suffice, we aren’t kindergarteners.
If you want to pontificate with your own words, write all you want, bu if you refer us to another piece, just paraphraze it, give us the link, and let us do our own research.
We aren’t Republican numbskull brainwashed cultists, we think for ourselves and form our own opinions based on our own ideas, and do research to help us form those opinions, we don’t just take them spoonfed from the RNC.
I tend to agree with POA, on this troll in particualr, just ignore their posts, they are not even provocatuers, they are boring.
— John Patterson Dec 18, 12:39 PM # - “You slap-fight with the tail, (rank and file Democrats) while you should be bearing down courageously against the fire-breathing head, that neocon war-machine that threatens to consume the whole world in war-for-profit, a perpetual conflict in the name of money.”
If you haven’t noticed, these mewling cowards you cite, the “rank and file democrats”, are the only weapons we have to fight these bastards in the White House. If someone hands me a sword, I am going to do my best to make sure the damn thing is sharp before I go traipsing into the battlefield. Do you find the words at the beginning of this thread “sharp”?? Reid’s words are just mewling cowtowing political HORSESHIT. You KNOW that that IS the truth. Read it again. This is the GOD DAMNED minority LEADER for chrisakes, and he is casting this limpwristed political doublespeak about while it is disclosed this son of a bitch in the Oval Office is illegally spying on American Citizens???? HORSESHIT!!!!! You want to accept that these mewling cowtowing opportunistic political SCHMUCKS are the best we can do, then FINE. But I tell you what, if the kind of useless horseshit that Reid offers here in this post is the best he can do than I suggest you take a long look at the Monkey Boy and that satanistic sick son of a bitch Cheney and understand that they are your future.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 12:53 PM # - #59
Yes, they are desperate. But “they” are usually just one guy posting over and over again with different names. Some posts are legit. Some are not.
— Attorney Jim Dec 18, 12:55 PM # - Post #59
Thanks for the heads up. This is my first time doing this. Sorry
— the gop won get over it Dec 18, 01:00 PM # - Hi, everyone. I’m a troll from the Bradblog website. I’ve crossed over to disrupt this website the way I temporarily ruined the Conyersblog.
I spread lies and insults while posting under multiple names. I invite you to check out my greatest hits at
Bradblog.com . His website has a search engine, just type in attorney jim, atty jim, jimmo, taco tom,
and a bunch of other ridiculous names.
I love GW so much, I’m willing to follow him over a cliff. I need you all to join me.
— Attorney Jim Dec 18, 01:18 PM # - From POA’s last post;
“I suggest you take a long look at the Monkey Boy and that satanistic sick son of a bitch Cheney and understand that they are your future.”
That’s the dragonshead I’m talking about. At least you recognize that fact. But by lumping all parties into one party, you are cornering yourself into a hopeless agenda.
I refuse to be hopeless, but I don’t put much hope in us humans. I consider these indictments and criminal charges against the neocons as a divine intervention.
Justice, in a purely spiritual sense, is just as pissed off as you are. Someone threw a blanket over her head, and she wants payback.
No power on Earth can turn her hand away from her righteous vengeance. They can only forestall her retribution, and turn on one another in the chaos.
If not for Harry and some other Democrats, Patrick Fitzgerald would never have had the power to form his grand juries. What you perceive as the Democrat’s complicity in the BushCult deception is better defined as the wheels of minority rights turning ever-so-slowly against the wheel of majority abuse.
Harry Reid is not Harry Potter. He can’t wave a magic wand and make you happy, POA. He is the MINORITY leader, not the MAJORITY leader.
But like most of the Democrats, he’s doing whatever he can to make the changes you demand, whether it is fast enough for you or not.
You just can’t get it through your head that your urgency will not be the determining factor in this timetable. While you and those like you certainly influence the directional meanderings of our government, there is no way to speed up that flow, short of outright rebellion and revolution.
Their response will never match your demands.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 01:20 PM # - The poll results I heard this morning after the President’s speech last night show that the new PR war is NOT working. Onlyu 31% of those polled said they’re optimistic about what will happen in Iraq and 69% are pessimistic. This just proves that the same old BS from the Bush Administration is not working. People want the truth.
— RenoResident Dec 18, 01:38 PM # - Just re-read post # 9 (POA) and 10 (JORO)again,
POA you accomplish so much more with these kind of posts than all your tirades combined. This is what a blog is best used for.
if Joro or any of our trolls think Cheney’s speech went un-applauded because of some military protocol, they need to watch all the recent footage of Bush at military gatherings. HYPOCRITES!!
What was Cheney doing in Iraq in the first place? He hasn’t been there since 1991, it might seem to free-thinking Americans that he was using the troops for political grandstanding.
Could it possibly be that OUR VICE PRESIDENT USED OUR TROOPS TO STAGE A POLITICAL EVENT and the soldiers did not appreciate being used?
SO they refused to applaud their shadow commander in chief, because he spewed the same garbage to them that he feeds to his fat and happy billionaire base, and the troops knew what a lie it all was? They are in the thick of it, if anyone knows Cheney is a liar, it’s the troops he lies about.
Anyone who thinks our soldiers are all BushCult members hasn’t talked to many of them. Bush and Cheney throw the word Patriot around much too easily.
Those soldiers who dissed Cheney are the real patriots, they’ve been there and done that, and they don’t support Bush en masse, like Cheney apparently thought they would.
The All-Star wrestlers raised morale more than Cheney ever could.
Put old Dick in a roped-off ring in Baghdad, with a couple lady wrestlers, you might get some applause from those troops.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 01:44 PM # - “But like most of the Democrats, he’s doing whatever he can to make the changes you demand, whether it is fast enough for you or not. ”
Again, I implore you to read Reid’s words at the beginning of this thread. It is useless self serving horseshit. You know it, and I know it, and anyone with two or more brain cells knows it. To call those words “doing whatever he can” is ludicrous to the extreme. It is not ME that can’t get concepts and truths through my head, it is YOU. And the truth is that the kind of mewling horseshit that Reid offers at the beginning of this thread accomplishes NOTHING. ZIP. NADA. And you can be damned sure that these mewling pissants will spew this useless pablum as long as their constituency allows them to. It is time, NOW, to DEMAND that these opportunistic self serving sons of bitches start doing their jobs before this criminal cabal in the White House decides it is time to serve up another “trifecta” to get the American people back on the fear bus.
BTW, why are you pimping for Reid? Why not use this blog to implore him to answer the three simple questions I pose here in my opening comment on this thread? Does he REQUIRE an apologist? Join me in seeking a response to my simple questions. Whats the harm?
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 01:53 PM # - POA;
I have always wanted the answers to those questions. But I don’t expect them to come in the form of paragraphs and sentences. The results will show up in ways you might not see, especially if you expect easy answers from people like Harry, who’s only hope for influence is to play a game of political chess you could never understand.
Here’s an example you should appreciate; If people like Harry and Feingold and Boxer and Conyers and Byrd and lots of etceteras, weren’t having an influence, we would be attacking the whole Axis of Evil by now, fully engaged in a global war, and anyone from the middle class or lower would be draft bait.
But you don’t see that as enough, you expect the Democrats to just wave their magic wand and make it all better, just the way you imagine it should be.
However, I do join you in your call for the answers to your questions, I have never questioned your logic or reasoning in asking them. You just use a lot of poison vernacular in the way you ask, and you make demands that none of our elected officials, except those Republicans in control, can satisfy. And they aren’t going to listen to you, in your anger, or me in my logic, in the first place, so why are you so mad at Harry?
Might it be, the victory he speaks of is removing our troops safely, as soon as possible? But to frame it that way, so people like you are satiated, brings down the same type of BS we got last time, where Murtha’s strategic 6 month withdrawal plans were perverted on the floor of Congress into “cut and run immediately.”
Even those of us who want out NOW, right now, the Cindy Sheehan kind of NOW, don’t expect that to happen, even though it is the right thing to do.
I’m nobody’s apologist, but I am loyal when I choose my sides. If you can’t find a side to choose in this political divide, you’re just flailing in the wind. Anyone who thinks the Democrats and the Republicans are equal in this disaster is using simplistic reasoning.
Obviously, you never understood what I meant when I said a lot of good Democrats feel exactly the way you do, but very few Republicans would agree with you at any level.
So who are your allies?
Lets stop dealing with one another and deal with the “other side” of this equation. If you’ll go over to one of the Bush Blogs and make the same arguments you are making here, I’ll believe you. But for now, I can’t tell which side you are really on, because according to you, everyone who doesn’t respond with your sense of imminent urgency is the enemy.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 02:43 PM # - An open letter to George W. Bush;
Victory” didn’t work, now we’re “losers” if we leave?
That seems to be the new line, the latest talking point, the diametric opposite of Victory is Loser.
No more of this “Victory” BS, lets talk “losers.” That Victory as a “keyword” thing wasn’t working, huh?
I would appreciate it if any of our trolls could describe for us how we can possibly lose this war?
Lay out the scenario for us.
If the Iraqis have a civil war, have we lost? Or if the Iraqis control their own oil profits, do we lose? If Iran ends up ruling Iraq, are we the losers? Or will it be our old enemies the Sunnis who would be the losers? Or Are we both, Americans and Sunnis, the losers then?
What constitutes losing?
Dead soldiers and civilians?
Here’s a thought: Maybe, as long as we are there, George still has a chance to lose this war and fail to supplant Daddy as “The Greater of Two Bushes.”
Just how can we lose this war, now with Saddam in a monkey cage and the regime completely changed?
George W. Bush, please tell us, apparently you know.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 02:58 PM # - ANWR, Haliburton’s next no-bid playground, just got the big screwjob from Congress.
In the same bill that includes military pay raises and limitations on torture. Made it real hard to vote against ANWR. Now anyone who defends the environment by voting agsinst anwr is labeled a traitor who won’t support the troops and won’t vote against torture.
Was that the deal McCain made? Oil for torture?
Get the drills out, boys, there’s oil in them thar’ hills!
Alaska’s residents should all hope the drillers provide some cheap petroleum jelly, along with the easy cash.
HYPOCRITES!!!
What is the ANWR bill doing in the same bill with the torture restrictions?
GREEDY HYPOCRITES!!!!
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 03:26 PM # - “I have always wanted the answers to those questions. But I don’t expect them to come in the form of paragraphs and sentences. The results will show up in ways you might not see, especially if you expect easy answers from people like Harry, who’s only hope for influence is to play a game of political chess you could never understand.”
Don’t throw that condescending bullshit at me. I understand PERFECTLY what you are saying. You are saying that politics takes precedence over honesty and common sense. I understand political horseshit when I see it, and that is EXACTLY what Reid is casting with that embarrasing bit of nothingness he starts this thread with. And yes, your rationale and justifications for such meaningless political posturing ARE the actions of an apologist.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 03:28 PM # - Shouldn’t the signature be, “The GOP won’t get over it?”
— John Patterson Dec 18, 03:36 PM # - An open letter to George W. Bush;
Victory” didn’t work, now we’re “losers” if we leave?
.......yadayadayada….
George W. Bush, please tell us, apparently you know.
JEP
— John Patterson
ROFLMAO!!!!!! And you question my efforts to wrest answers out of the one man who is supposed to be spearheading the opposition to Bush, as the “Minority Leader”???
Tell me, who here has the strongest chance of recieving an answer, and is pursuing the most constructive avenue for change?
Talk about tilting at windmills.
John, I think you are just another partisan fool, who has been sold party loyalty at the cost of common sense and self-determination.
Wise up, you damned fool, if your generals won’t wage battle, you will never win the war. We are represented by eunichs and opportunists, and it is time we demanded more. Bush and Cheney are walking all over these cowards, and the kind of mincing rhetoric we see at the head of this thread is the PROBLEM, not the solution.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 03:42 PM # - http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_plan_sharp_rebuke_of_prewar_1219.html
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 03:52 PM # - — Jesus was a LIBERAL! Dec 19, 09:06 AM #
Total stupidity, Would Jesus have agreed with the liberals and authorized the murder of 1.4 million innocent unborn children every year in America? Would Jesus have approved the starvation for a half of a month of a disabled Terri Schindler? I could go on for a book but you get the idea. Read a bible and the DNC Platform and than make your asinine statement.
— joro Dec 18, 04:00 PM # - “You are saying that politics takes precedence over honesty and common sense.”
I’m saying exactly that, over and over again, in nearly every post I have ever pecked out.
And not because I like it. Because it is a fact, and a sad one indeed.
You want a revolutionary change in the way we govern, or maybe a stricter adherance to the ideals that came from our Revolution.
I agree. But I am a realist.
You still think your revolutionary needs can be met with evolutionary Democracy, and I’m trying to tell you your only source of influence, outside of outright rebellion, is to pick a side and live with it, and do whatever you can to bend that side towards the ends you seek.
True, there are more people every day who get that urge for rebellion, and maybe they are right.
Being right doesn’t necessarily make you powerful, at least not at this stage in our evolutionary trip.
DO THE BEST WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 04:03 PM # - Thanks for the link, Bill.
John, Reid’s name better be on this thing, or your apologies for him are going to fall on deaf ears…....
Democrats plan sharp rebuke of pre-war intelligence, Iraq war in massive new congressional report
Larisa Alexandrovna and John Byrne
House Judiciary Committee Democrats, spearheaded by Congressman John Conyers (D-MI), are set to release possibly the sharpest congressional critique to date surrounding Iraq, RAW STORY has learned.
The report, titled “The Constitution in Crisis: The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution and Coverups in the Iraq War,” is slotted to be made available to the public Tuesday. RAW STORY acquired a copy of the book’s cover and some additional information about the document today.
According to Democratic aides, the report will focus on alleged manipulation of pre-war intelligence by the White House, specifically covering such topics as the Downing Street Minutes as well as the White House position on the Geneva Conventions and international law as regards its policies toward prisoners of war. Sources say the report is slated to be published as a book.
continues at…...
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_plan_sharp_rebuke_of_prewar_1219.html
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 04:07 PM # - John, I think Pissed Off American has got you with #73. There isn’t a breath of leadership coming out of Reid, Pelosi, Dean, or any Congressional Dem. Too bad the pathetic clowns who call themselves Senators from my state of Illinois aren’t up for re-election. They’ve shown just as much competence.
Maybe Daschle should roll out the Welcome Wagon, as he knows all about Dem “leadership”.
— Steve Dec 18, 04:08 PM # - Jesus believed in feeding the poor, free medical care and sharing of resources. And the only Republican-type he ever encountered, except for maybe Pilate, He told him to sell all he had and give to the poor, and come and follow Him.
The rich man just couldn’t do it, because his wealth mattered more.
So, Joro, you ready to sell all you have and give it to the poor?
How about you conservative icons? How many of their daughters had those abortions you mentioned, because they didn’t want to be pregnant their freshman year at Vassar?
HYPOCRITES!!
joro, read up on the Pharisees, because I’ll give you a lesson on them next time you mention The Lord in vain. You oppose abortion but you defend torture, and then you pretend to speak for God?
You are in for a real big surprise.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 04:11 PM # - As for all of you who think the Dems aren’t displaying leadership, let me repeat a paragraph none of you seems to want to address.
“Here’s an example you should appreciate; If people like Harry and Feingold and Boxer and Conyers and Byrd and lots of etceteras, weren’t having an influence, we would be attacking the whole Axis of Evil by now, fully engaged in a global war, and anyone from the middle class or lower would be draft bait.”
I wonder how many of your college age trolls would still be boosting bush and blasting harry if you were facing boot camp and deployment to a big battle in North Korea or Iran?
You all know the neocons wanted to attack everyone in the axis, but something held them back from outright world-wide engagement.
I wonder who was involved in that?
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 04:16 PM # - # 49. One of the biggest complaints I have ever had about President Bush is his secrecy, fortunately for all of us he seems to have given up some ground on this issue.
JJ Glendenning
— JJ Glendenning Dec 19, 12:09 PM #
Who hired Craig Livingstone? Where were the billing records for 4 years? Who fired the Travel Office employees? Did they ever find the 2 guns Vince Foster used to blow his brains out with? What were the raw FBI files used for? Who used them?
— joro Dec 18, 04:16 PM # - “You still think your revolutionary needs can be met with evolutionary Democracy, and I’m trying to tell you your only source of influence, outside of outright rebellion, is to pick a side and live with it, and….
DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO BEND THAT SIDE TOWARDS THE ENDS YOU SEEK.”
Great idea, John. When do you intend to start?
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 04:20 PM # - # 55 Patterson. Start adding up the indictments, the charges and allegations and investigations, and there is clearly an implosion going on in America’s ruling party, and it is not foreign terrorists who are creating it, unless Osama has been hiding on K Street.
I will match indictments and convictions of the Clinton’s and compare them to the current honest, moral administration any day of the week. The Democrat Clinton’s were the most crooked, corrupt, lying administration in our history so stop with your lies already. The Democrat party is the one that imploded so that now Republicans control the White House, The US Senate, The US House, most state legislatures and most State governorships. That trend will continue because of obstructionists like the sore loser Reid being a party hack who kills important legislation for his perceived filthy political purposes. In the process, Reid puts American lives at risk.
RECALL REID.
— joro Dec 18, 04:30 PM # - #52 POA
The trolls (troll) here are (is) attempting to “jam” the threads with this bullshit they are casting. I strongly suggest you attempt to IGNORE the more obvious inanities they are offering as distractions. As much as I am disgusted by Reid’s mewling comment and his unwillingness to go beyond the opportunistic grandstanding we saw in his Senate Charade, the RW propaganda machine must be intimidated by him, or they would not be trolling this site with such fervor. If you continue to engage these assholes they will literally destroy this website. Again, I suggest you ignore them.
POA, try being an American for a day instead of a partisan hack. You might find you enjoy it and begin doing what is best for America rather than parroting the DNC propaganda.
GIVE HARRY HELL.
— joro Dec 18, 04:34 PM # - Sometimes I think public rebellion is what the neocons and Bush are hoping for and trying to encite. Then they could declare marshall law and all investigations of their corruption would be ceased.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 04:35 PM # - POA, it won’t be long and your only allies will be people like Steve.
I’ve been following Conyers’ story since the Ohio election, this should be a good example to you of how laboriously the wheels of justice turn in a bully government. I still have a very early copy of Conyer’s DVD “Rove’s War” which I show to people as often as possible.
But don’t you realize, Conyers has taken one baby step after another towards this event, we tried to get it out to the public long ago, but “The Powers That BE’ that you seem to consider non-existent (and therefore you should get your way on demand) sent us into a basement room and the MSM refused to continue covering the living story, except for CSpan and then only at first..
Conyers has had to scratch and scrape for every inch of ground he has taken to get this far. So are you getting on his blog and trashing him for playing the waiting game he has no choice but to play, and staying with it through thick and thin, until he can finally make a difference?
If Conyers’ people are your allies, so is Harry Reid.
If you think Harry can do so much moremore, why don’t you describe just what you think he has the power to do?
If it comes down to trashing the President more vocally and with greater vehemence, well, he’s got us to do that for him. About all he can do that would satisfy you is to trash Bush publicly using your harsh vernacular.
But other than that, just what powers do you think he has at his disposal that he isn’t using?
Like I said, I’ve watched Conyer’s Downing Street Memo program crawl along inch by labored inch for months and months, and never once accused John Conyers of being responsible for slowing it down. You sure seem bent on blaming Harry when he hits a wallnot of his own making.
So who’s side are you on? Just give me a reference of at least one political figure you trust enough to call worthy?
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 04:37 PM # - joro, joro, is it back to Clinton again? Why are so many republicans jealous of Bill Clinton? He’s history, get over it.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 04:42 PM # - “Here’s an example you should appreciate; If people like Harry and Feingold and Boxer and Conyers and Byrd and lots of etceteras, weren’t having an influence, we would be attacking the whole Axis of Evil by now, fully engaged in a global war, and anyone from the middle class or lower would be draft bait.”
Oh come on. Thats like the argument that the right is offering that Bush has averted another terrorist attack. You offer hypotheticals as excuses for reality. I have seen no partisan tug of war in regards to the escalation of Bush’s imperialism in the Middle east. Circumstance and poor planning caused the derailment of the Neocon designs on Iraq, Syria and Iran. And we are not out of the woods yet. The Israelis would like nothing more than to see our efforts expand, and they are definitely not beyond triggering an event that would mandate such an expansion.
You know John, the weak opposition that has been advanced by the Democratic party’s leadership works perfectly in the favor of these lying treasonous bastards in the White House. You have had the umittigated gall to question my motives and my alliances here, while you defend the very weaknesses that have allowed this Administration to enjoy the excesses of power it currently practices. One wonders, how, after the 5 years of ineffective and counterproductive efforts that the Democratic leadership has lodged, you can defend the status quo and seriously advance the argument that we are making inroads…...PARTICULARLY when we see the mewling horseshit that Reid offers above, directly on the heels of the revelation that Bush is illegally spying on American citizens.
We MUST ignite the passions of the leaders of the so called “opposition party” with the sparks of our disillusionment and dissappointment if we expect to turn this mess around. One wonders why you have armed yourself with a fire extinguisher instead of a blow torch.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 04:44 PM # - 1. Now that we’ve had 9/11, capturing OBL should have been the # 1 priority without any questions. Before 9/11, there was some room for debate. But not now! So why hasn’t Bush caught him?
2. Bush and his administration had been warned by the outgoing administration that OBL and AQ was the biggest threat and they pretty much ignored them which may not completely let the Clinton administration off the hook… but mostly off the hook.
3. The Clinton administration did try both diplomacy AND force to capture or kill OBL well before it was politically popular to do so.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 04:47 PM # - “You sure seem bent on blaming Harry when he hits a wall not of his own making.”
Again, I point towards the bit of useless horseshit that Reid offered above. Care to tell me what purpose it served?
“Wall not of his own making” my ass.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 04:50 PM # - Joro’s last post;
“I will match indictments and convictions of the Clinton’s and compare them to the current honest, moral administration any day of the week.”
Post that anywhere but Blogs for Bush and you will have them laughing in the aisles. Clinton, the magic word!
Just say “Clinton” and the argument is won!
I’m gonna frame this one and hang it somewhere in public.
“CURRENT HONEST, MORAL ADMINISTRATION”?
HYPOCRITES!!!
Just saying it can’t make it true, you are only reinforcing the brainwashing you have suffered. There is no way history will ever compare Clinton’s indescretions to Bush’s deadly deceptions, but you can fool yourself all day if you want. Just don’t try to post any proof, ayou’re wasting our time and blogspace.
I’m going to post that paragraph in public place, then stand back and watch. I’ll do a video of the response from people on the street, and put it on the website.
This should be good.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 04:50 PM # - If the officer in charge of the train had been Japanese instead of british, what would have happened to Ghandi?
— Walter E. Wallis Dec 18, 04:51 PM # - #67 POA. You said to the wannabe neolib troll, Patterson “BTW, why are you pimping for Reid? Why not use this blog to implore him to answer the three simple questions I pose here in my opening comment on this thread? Does he REQUIRE an apologist? Join me in seeking a response to my simple questions. Whats the harm?
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 02:53 PM #
I like your definition of what Demmie sheeple are doing. The DNC controlled main street media is doing the same for the Democrats. Thank God radicals like Patterson obviously have no influence on the informed voter at election time. What you are asking Patterson to do is what we Republicans have done for decades. We demand honesty and integrity of our politicians and if they go astray, we quickly remove them as we did recently to Cunningham. Contrast that to Reid who recently praised the self confessed Grand Kleagle Robert KKK Byrd from the Senate floor on national TV!!!
GIVE HARRY HELL
— joro Dec 18, 04:54 PM # - #68. Lets stop dealing with one another and deal with the “other side” of this equation. If you’ll go over to one of the Bush Blogs and make the same arguments you are making here, I’ll believe you. But for now, I can’t tell which side you are really on, because according to you, everyone who doesn’t respond with your sense of imminent urgency is the enemy.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 03:43 PM #
There is the problem. You, and the Democrats, including your leaders, see this as a contest between political parties. We Republicans see the issue as doing what is best for America. That is why Republicans are in control and sore losers like Reid are crying in their whine soup.
GIVE HARRY HELL
— joro Dec 18, 05:00 PM # - POA;
It served the same purpose John Conyer’s blog has served for many months, and many other blogs, to keep the issue burning and not letting it drop off the map. One day at a time, one paragraph at a time.
Harry can’t make it all right in a single paragraph But if you look at the pattern, not the posting itself, it is just like Conyers and everyone else who is fighting these bullies.
Again, what do you think Harry can do, more than this? Please answer this one question, what more should he do?
What tools does he have that you think he is not using?
If you just want him to talk dirty or trash Bush personally, you just don’t get it. Here’s a clip from Harry’s post.
”...too much of the substance remains the same and the American people have still not heard what benchmarks we must meet along the way to know that progress is being made and that our brave troops can begin to come home.”
Does that sound like he’s kissing Bushbutt?
You want us all to think so.
Sounds more like an admonition to me, but apparently because there are no expletives included, you think Harry’s not doing his job.
You want it to read, “Bush is a lyin’ sack of cow manure, and he’s not tellin’ us the truth about what he’s a schemin’ for our troops…”
Sounds good for a screenplay, but unless it’s Cheney talking to Leahy, the language will obviously remain much too over-civilized for your tastes.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 05:06 PM # - #71 Your response to Patterson “Don’t throw that condescending bullshit at me. I understand PERFECTLY what you are saying. You are saying that politics takes precedence over honesty and common sense. I understand political horseshit when I see it, and that is EXACTLY what Reid is casting with that embarrasing bit of nothingness he starts this thread with. And yes, your rationale and justifications for such meaningless political posturing ARE the actions of an apologist.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 04:28 PM # ”
BINGO. POA, you sometimes make the most sense of any Demmie ever.
RECALL REID.
— joro Dec 18, 05:06 PM # - John, the line about heading off the draft by the “leaders” you mention can be dismissed outright since nobody except a Democrat (Rangel, in a political stunt) has even talked about a draft. Only you guys do.
How do you know we’d be attacking the entire Axis of Evil all at once? Do you have some military insight into this? Some contact at the DoD give you a tip? I didn’t know the neocons wanted to do this attacking all at once. As far as who held them back, my guess is the administration itself and those in Congress who know more about defense matters than just appropriations for their district.
Hey, how about that assassination attempt on Ahmadinejad? Are you going to blame the “neocon cabal”?
— Steve Dec 18, 05:06 PM # - The U.S. versus the World.
Joro’s view of reality.
And a nightmare for us if it ever really happens.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 05:07 PM # - POA;
See what I told you about the trolls taking your side?
By your own extremity, you are one with them.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 05:09 PM # - #80. I wonder how many of your college age trolls would still be boosting bush and blasting harry if you were facing boot camp and deployment to a big battle in North Korea or Iran?— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:16 PM #
Gee, last I remember is it was a Democrat who submitted a Bill to reinstate the draft. The Republican majority rejected the Bill.
— joro Dec 18, 05:13 PM # - “John, the line about heading off the draft by the “leaders” you mention can be dismissed outright since nobody except a Democrat (Rangel, in a political stunt) has even talked about a draft.”
Anyone who believes Rumsfelt wouldn’t love to get his bloody little hands on every draft-age American without a Daddy in Congress is in fantasy land.
Rangel is the only one to force the issue PUBLICLYand that was only to expose the Republican HYPOCRISY.
But if any of you trolls think the draft was never talked about, many times behind close WH doors, in the run-up to the war, you are all naive. You would all be draft-bait if Bush and company had their way.
Had the Iraqis “welcomed us with open arms”, I suspect we would have gone right into Syria or Iran next.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 05:18 PM # - From Bill, #89
“1. Now that we’ve had 9/11, capturing OBL should have been the # 1 priority without any questions. Before 9/11, there was some room for debate. But not now! So why hasn’t Bush caught him?
2. Bush and his administration had been warned by the outgoing administration that OBL and AQ was the biggest threat and they pretty much ignored them which may not completely let the Clinton administration off the hook… but mostly off the hook.
3. The Clinton administration did try both diplomacy AND force to capture or kill OBL well before it was politically popular to do so.”
Answers:
1) Further questions to your question. Do we put a quarter-million troops in Afghanistan, or just the number that are in Iraq? Is this OK with the current Afghan government? Do we ask Pakistan if we can put troops there, and what if they don’t want us to?
2) Bush’s failure was to not dump the idiots he kept on from the Clinton administration, especially when it turned out that they were liars and thieves; Clinton is the big failure since he didn’t realize OBL declared war on the US in 1996
3) Clinton did squat; see my answer for 2)
— Steve Dec 18, 05:23 PM # - #86 Patterson.
Oh, so now another Demmie has some book out making ridiculous assertions that the DNC controlled media will headline on its front pages and then is a few weeks, the Demmies end up with egg all over their faces as they have with every other lie they concocted. Will you people ever learn? How many flops can you endure? Dan Blather should have been a lesson. More recently, Cindy Sheehan flopped as soon as Michael Moore dropped support, Geore Soros and his billions were all wasted, Mrs. Wilson, the CIA clerk story, ended up with no charges except for some misstatements made after 3 years of memory lapses, the Wilson lies were proven wrong by the 911 Commission and the Clarke book was similiarly proven to be a pack of lies. Why don’t you Demmie sheeple demand that your leaders devote an equal amount of time and energy to solving America’s problems instead of concocting all those lies?
REID RESIGN
— joro Dec 18, 05:24 PM # - #87. joro, joro, is it back to Clinton again? Why are so many republicans jealous of Bill Clinton? He’s history, get over it.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 05:42 PM #
The Crook Clinton keeps popping up on foreign soil bad mouthing America. No prior ex-president ever did that. His hatred of America and loyalty to his masters, the Chicoms, is his legacy.
— joro Dec 18, 05:28 PM # - “you have had the umittigated gall to question my motives and my alliances here, while you defend the very weaknesses that have allowed this Administration to enjoy the excesses of power it currently practices.”
No, I question your grasp of reality, not your integrity. I have never been a defender of weakness, I just don’t think Harry can asccomplish what you think he is somehow in control of and you’re blaming him for Bush and Cheney.
Tell me what you think Harry can do to satisfy your needs. You still haven’t suggested what tools he has as Minority leader that he is not using, that you are accusing him of negligence by.
Seriously, on your next post, don’t paste one of my paragraphs in, just tell us how Harry can make you feel like he has done something you recognize as valuable. What do you want from him, other than to take the blame for Bush???
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 05:30 PM # - #101
“Rangel is the only one to force the issue PUBLICLYand that was only to expose the Republican HYPOCRISY.
But if any of you trolls think the draft was never talked about, many times behind close WH doors, in the run-up to the war, you are all naive. You would all be draft-bait if Bush and company had their way.
Had the Iraqis “welcomed us with open arms”, I suspect we would have gone right into Syria or Iran next.”
I’m still waiting to see where anyone in the Bush administration, or any Republican in Congress, called for a return to the draft. If that can be provided, then it’s a point in your favor.
I wouldn’t doubt that there may have been discussions by the administration about the draft. But it doesn’t change the fact that nothing public came out about it until Rangel pulled his stunt.
As far as your last paragraph, I suspect you are partially correct. But if the Iraqis had “welcomed us with open arms”, and the terrorist threat there was mostly minimized right away, in my opinion it would have given the administration more diplomatic leverage in dealing with Syria and Iran.
— Steve Dec 18, 05:31 PM # - #89 3. The Clinton administration did try both diplomacy AND force to capture or kill OBL well before it was politically popular to do so.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 05:47 PM #
You have a short memory. Even Clinton confessed he was offered Osama 4 times and he refused to take him every time. Clinton was too occupied messing up a blue Dress to be bothered with such matters. Yea, sure, it was only about sex!!! Remember Harry Reid failed to uphold his Oath of Office and refused to even censure the pig Clinton for what now amounts to many deaths and cost to us.
RECALL REID
— joro Dec 18, 05:34 PM # - My, my, my look at the trolls dance. Harry, you definitely hit a nerve. The plunging GOP poll numbers, topped with the hit they took in the gubernatorials has them spooked. The more you challenged their King, they more they’ll try to back you into a corner with their tired lemming rhetoric “Bush will keep us safer”, “We have to fight them there so we won’t fight them here”, “Challenging the president is giving aid and comfort to the enemy” and the other BS they regurgitate ad nauseam. One day they’ll look back at these stupid talking points and realize that a working brain is better than bending over to pledge loyalty to a president you doesn’t give a sh*t about them either. Well, unless they sent 5k to his re-election campaign. Here’s a funny thought, everytime they cast a vote for these slimeball repukelicans, they’re hammering one more nail into their own coffins. Jeez, if they weren’t so pathetic, they would be a Seinfield episode.
— Ayana Dec 18, 05:34 PM # - Trolls;
If you think Clinton criticizing Bush’s failed world policies is trashing America, you better revise your definition of America. Equating Bush to America is offensive to many of us, there are a lot of intelligent people whohave never considered Bush a legitimate president.
Clinton speaks for me and many others when he reaches out to the rest of the world (you know that big flat place your icons want to own) and lets them know not all of us want to dominate them.
It’s a big world out there. A lot bigger than us.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 05:36 PM # - Joro’s last post;
“I will match indictments and convictions of the Clinton’s and compare them to the current honest, moral administration any day of the week.”
Post that anywhere but Blogs for Bush and you will have them laughing in the aisles. Clinton, the magic word!
Just say “Clinton” and the argument is won!
I’m gonna frame this one and hang it somewhere in public.
“CURRENT HONEST, MORAL ADMINISTRATION”?
HYPOCRITES!!!
Just saying it can’t make it true, you are only reinforcing the brainwashing you have suffered. There is no way history will ever compare Clinton’s indescretions to Bush’s deadly deceptions, but you can fool yourself all day if you want. Just don’t try to post any proof, ayou’re wasting our time and blogspace.
I’m going to post that paragraph in public place, then stand back and watch. I’ll do a video of the response from people on the street, and put it on the website.
This should be good.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:50 PM #
You Democrats soft on crime even refuse to accept court indictments and convictions as proof. You are so hopelessly blinded by your partisanship. Thank God you do not represent all Demmies and there are some like POA with a bit of common sense.
— joro Dec 18, 05:41 PM # - Right on, Joro. When is Bush gonna hand out the Kool-Aid? (Literally) I’m ready for the UFO’s to take us away. We need Bush to spy on all those lefties up in arms about laws and rights. What good are rights if you can’t spy on those terrorist Quakers.
How dare those Quakers protest peacefully! My only regret about Bush is that he didn’t lay the hammer (not Tom DeLay) down on those peace activist Quakers. Let’s get the militia in on them!
— Drinking Kool-Aid Dec 18, 06:21 PM # - John…...
Three things come to mind…..
First, I wonder at your total refusal to address Reid’s sacharin horseshit that this thread is premised on. I can only assume that you know as well as I do that it is nothing more than empty political pandering.
Secondly, why are you encouraging and engaging the trolls here? You know they seek to disrupt the discourse. Why are you abetting their efforts?
Three, I wonder at your advocation of people like Reid practicing the same psuedo opposition that got us here in the first place. Reid’s mealy mouthed posturing, such as we see in the beginning of this thread, works in the FAVOR of the Bushlickers.
The worst enemy of both the right AND the left wing political bandits that are currently pillaging our coffers and our good name is an angry and informed populace that rises above partisanship to demand accountability from ALL our public servants, be they liberal, conservative, or even, in the case of the Monkey Boy and the Dick, FASCIST.
I think thou dost protest too much as to my anger and my demands. I think you seek to extinguish the very spark that can overturn the staus quo. I think it is YOU that has a trojan agenda here.
— Pissed Off American Dec 18, 06:42 PM # - #109
Now who is being naive?
”...there are a lot of intelligent people whohave never considered Bush a legitimate president.”
Bush v. Gore decided it. Get over it. That would be the intelligent thing to do.
“Clinton speaks for me and many others when he reaches out to the rest of the world (you know that big flat place your icons want to own) and lets them know not all of us want to dominate them.”
Except for the ousting of Milosevic, every Clinton foreign policy move was a complete and utter failure.
1) He agreed to regime change in Somalia in 1993, but pulled the troops after the “Blackhawk Down” incident
2) He got suckered into paying extortion money to North Korea so that they wouldn’t develop nukes; they did anyway
3) He (and Ehud Barak) got suckered into believing Yasser Arafat actually wanted peace; Arafat began the latest intifada with Israel so that he could keep those under him (the PA, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa) squabbling amongst themselves to keep from losing power over the Palestinians and to embezzle from the PA’s treasury
4) He got suckered by the UN and Saddam Hussein into going along with the Oil-for-Food fiasco, the biggest financial scandal in history
5) He signs the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, despite the fact that he wasn’t going to do anything substantial about getting rid of Hussein, especially with Oil-for-Food going on in high gear
6) He didn’t know OBL had declared war on the US in 1996; around 300 people were killed and over 5500 were wounded in those five years and Clinton did next to nothing; we know this because OBL and AQ were able to pull off the 9/11 attacks
If Clinton speaks for you, then it is best you know the facts of what he did as President.
I truly don’t want the US to dominate the world. But until such time that countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, etc., begin putting in versions of our First Amendment (and enforcing it), stop repression of their citizens, and stop financing terrorist networks, then somebody has to be able to stop them in the same way, with threats of violent overthrow.
— Steve Dec 18, 06:55 PM # - Hey folks, I know some of those Quaker terrorists, they’re a dangerous bunch, especially Alice.
She’s abut 80 now, a lifelong peace activist and secretary of her Peace Coalition group. Just think, all these years she’s been in cahoots with the terrorist element. Blue eyes and white hair and Bible totin’ don’t guarantee nothin’ these days, huh?
Dangerous lady, Old Alice, we have always suspected she really had an explosive berka hanging in her closet.
But now we have a President who knows how to protect us from terrorists like Alice.
Surely she’s on the list, isn’t she?
I wonder how many of our lawmakers, especially Democrats know someone closely who was spied on.
Or how many of our lawmakers themselves were spied on?
DO YOU HAVE YOUR PAPERS!!!
You maroons are gonna ruin our Democracy by enabling these bullies.
Didn’t this “conservative revolution” start sometime around 1984? “Big Brother is listening” might be the better phrase.
As for getting over Republicans cheating in the 2000, 2002, and the 2004 elections, I will never willingly surrender my Democracy without resistance, and the resistance is still burning. If you think the election scandal is going away before Bush does, you are all in for a big surprise. Secrets don’t stay secret when the thugs don’t get paid for their work.
But, I’ll let that story tell itself. It will come soon enough.
For now, its time for the Downing Street Memos to meet the Illegal Wiretap Scandal, I get the feeling they will be cozy companions. They may even have some links.
JEP
Hey, since Bush admitted he ordered illegal wiretaps, can I do a “citizen’s arrest” like old Gomer Pyle did to Barney Fife in Mayberry? Remember that show, Gomer chased down Barney for making a U-turn, hollering at the top of hislungs, “Citizen’s arrest, citizen’s arrest!”
That’s just how I feel right now. Doesn’t seem to be any authority these people have to answer to.
— John Patterson Dec 18, 07:24 PM # - Steve;
Do you shop at Wal Mart?
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 07:25 PM # - Bush has suspended the Bill Of Rights to do domestic spying . Can anyone tell me, Could Bush suspend the Second Amendment? Has the Second Amendment already been suspended?
Has every amendment been suspended? Isn’t it all one part and parcel?
I believe in all of the Bill Of Rights. Would citizens be in their legal right to defend the Bill Of Rights with their right to bear arms?
Can anyone answer these questions in a legal manner with common sense without over the top retoric.
— gary jarvis Dec 18, 07:27 PM # - All Bush v Gore determined was what a bunch of Bushbutt kissers the Supreme Court has become.
That is already in the history book as part of an illegitimate election ploy. It’s hard to see it from any other angle in retrospect.
DUH!
If Bush had really won, why did he need the Supreme Court to fix it for him? Do you think the people of the future are all going to be simpletons? What else can they surmiose from the simple fact of the matter.
You can spin it all day long, but the fact is, it was the Supreme Court, not The People, who installed Bush, you referred to it yourself, Bush V. Gore was a court case, not an election.
The Republicans started this in 1994, and they got better at it every election cycle.
They apparently believe they must save our Democracy from itself. At any cost.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 18, 07:37 PM # - www.cannonfire.blogspot.com
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 08:30 PM # - Rightists seem to consider Iraq’s most recent election the most satisfactory exercise of democracy since the age of Pericles, and I’m not sure we shouldn’t encourage this hallucination. That perception aids the argument that we should declare victory and withdraw, the least horrible our options. Of course, civil war in Iraq will break out a few minutes after we break away, but at least we would no longer be melting and torturing those we intended to liberate.
For a good view of what really went down in these elections, start with this Guardian article on the likelihood of rigged voting in Iraq:
Suspected polling violations on voting day last week far exceeded the number in Iraq’s first election in January, local and international monitors said yesterday.
On the deadline for filing complaints, the number of alleged violations which could swing results in the 275-seat parliament was “well into double figures”, an accredited international election observer, who wished to remain anonymous, said.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 08:35 PM # - http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/PNAC_101
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 08:55 PM # - http://www.madcowprod.com/
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 09:05 PM # - http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/5740
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 09:30 PM # - Just amazing. I present the facts, and all that I hear is bloviating vitriol. Of course, that seems to be par for the course considering who the minority “leaders” of both Houses of Congress are, plus the leader of the DNC.
I know you all want it to be Sept. 10, 2001 or November 6, 2000 again, but it’s December 19, 2005. The reality is that George W. Bush is the President of the United States. The Republican Party has a majority in both Houses of Congress. The US was attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, by a vicious gang of terrorists who believe Osama bin Laden is their god, and that dying for him will put them in some kind of afterlife whorehouse. The Taliban, another group of vicious thugs (along the lines of the Mafia), used to brutally run Afghanistan, another country that has since held elections and has a new constitution. Saddam Hussein is a demented individual who used to be the brutal dictator of Iraq, and who supported terrorists, and Iraq now has held two elections and a vote on a constitution. This war, started by Saddam Hussein in 1990, and by OBL in 1996, is still going on not because of the US, but because those that support terrorists want it that way, much like the way the Nazis wanted war. Well, they started it, and it looks like we will finish it.
— Steve Dec 18, 09:34 PM # - Patty, If you think U.S. against the rest of the world now sounds bad, what if we back off and wait for U.S. against an Islamic world in 20 years?
— Walter E. Wallis Dec 18, 09:47 PM # - submitted on another blog>
Perhaps the Judical Committee should look into Operation Last Resort, a EU effort to kidnap Saddam and his two sons, two days before shock and awe, in March, 2003. 26 brave (foolhardy?) souls, went to Baghdad, to try to stop a war. Initially, the CIA approved the mission, but when the mission was briefed on a higher level (Tenet-Bush?), approval was recinded, without telling the team. Instead, the CIA told Saddam’s secuirty forces not only of the raid, but the exact route, safe house, etc. The intelligence team was supposed to die, but survived, with horrible losses. 2 killed, 22 wounded out of 26. Why did the US double cross its allies? By defeating the team’s meager chances for success, war was assured. Just a small, brave footnote, which happens to be the first armed confrontation between Europe, and the United States. Perhaps, the story some day, will be told. Then again, perhaps not.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 09:48 PM # - Roving Wiretaps Capture a Terrorist
by
Larry C. Johnson
The claim by President Bush that he needs to ignore the FISA process in order to nab terrorists shows that he either does not understand that this law has been used to actually capture a terrorist based on a phone call from a foreign country or he is hiding something. In 1989 an Avianca plane exploded in mid-air in Colombia. The culprit? A henchman of Pablo Escobar, Dandeny Munoz-Mosquera. Mosquera was arrested in New York City on 21 September 1991. Here is the press account, which appeared in the Washington Post on 27 September 1991:
Federal authorities reported the arrest in Queens of , described as a leading assassin, and said they stopped a plot to kill a “very important target,” possibly a world leader attending the U.N. General Assembly meeting.
Robert Bryden, chief of the Drug Enforcement Administration’s New York office, said Munoz-Mosquera, 24, was “the single most trusted assassin” for Colombia’s Medellin cocaine cartel. He said officials did not know Munoz-Mosquera’s target.
Munoz-Mosquera is suspected of killing 40 Colombian police officers, setting 12 car bombs and masterminding the murder of a Colombian presidential candidate in 1989, authorities said.
DEA agents staked out a pay telephone in Queens Wednesday night, according to court papers. A man later identified as Munoz-Mosquera got out of a car, made a phone call and was arrested, authorities said. “We have a lot of eyes and ears in New York in the Colombian community,” Bryden said.
Now for the real story.
Mosquera was grabbed thanks to a roving wiretap. I’ve heard the story from friends who were involved with the operation. DEA officials learned that Mosquera’s mom was going to call him. They moved quickly to set up a roving wiretap. They knew he was in New York but did not know where. Mosquera took many precautions, including having the in bound call bounce around the United States. He sent a third party to answer the phone. Once certain the coast was clear Mosquera climbed out of his car. DEA agents closed in and put a major league killer in jail. He was later convicted and is serving a long sentence in a high security US penal facility. The FISA authorization was obtained subsequently.
So, President Bush is wrong. You don’t have to break a law to get quick action. Not only can you catch terrorists using FISA, we have caught terrorists. The real story behind the unauthorized wiretaps authorized by President Bush probably concerns the source of the info. It appears the most likely explanation is that the Bush Administration did not want to have to tell a Federal judge that they were using information obtained from interrogations that violated the spirit and the letter of the Geneva Conventions. Instead of protecting the nation the President may be covering his derrier.
Posted by Larry Johnson on December 19, 2005 at 08:22 PM
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog
/2005/12/roving_wiretaps.html
For all you Bush apologists out there, Larry Johnson is a former CIA man and a Republican.
And he doesn’t like Bush. Keep shouting Clinton all you want, Bush is the president now and his mistakes are his and his alone.
— horkus Dec 18, 10:41 PM # - Well said, Horkus
— bill_o_carolina Dec 18, 10:51 PM # - #115 Patterson.
Hey, since Bush admitted he ordered illegal wiretaps, can I do a “citizen’s arrest” like old Gomer Pyle did to Barney Fife in Mayberry? Remember that show, Gomer chased down Barney for making a U-turn, hollering at the top of hislungs, “Citizen’s arrest, citizen’s arrest!”
That’s just how I feel right now. Doesn’t seem to be any authority these people have to answer to.
— John Patterson Dec 19, 08:24 PM #
Hey, go ahead. Make the arrest. You wouldn’t look any more foolish than you do with your posts.
— joro Dec 18, 11:04 PM # - HEY—be kind to our beloved Senator, “Stinkey” Reid, from Searchlight (that is his nickname, afterall), as he has had a stroke recently, and his cognative thinking has became scrambled. Too bad we cant recall him, and will have to have him removed for MALFEASANCE!
We don’t need no steenkin enemies on the outside. Enough of them right here in our country. And they’re doing all they can to destroy us. Democraps make me ill.
— Porcius Dec 18, 11:19 PM # - #117 Patterson. “If Bush had really won, why did he need the Supreme Court to fix it for him?”
Are you sore losers still debating the 2000 election? To answer your question, hopefully for the last time, the US Supreme Court had to step in to override the 7 Democrats on the Florida Supreme Court who attempted to change the Florida law after the fact to assist Albore in stealing the election. The US Supreme Court preserved the integrity of our election system that the corrupt DNC and Albore were attempting to destroy. Democrats want to make America a third world country in all respects including how they steal elections.
— joro Dec 18, 11:20 PM # - #119 Bill O.
You sound just as negative as the surrender, cut and run folks on C-Span tonight. Levin, Reed and Feingold had nothing but bad things to say to the Iraqis about their 70+% turnout. I am sure those Senators words offer great encouragement via Al Jazeera to the terrorists and will result in more US soldier deaths just like the words of Turban Durbin, Coward Kerry and Screechin Dean did in the past. If the MiNOrity party had any leadership who were patriotic Americans, they would censure and/or remove these traitors from Congress.
RECALL REID
— joro Dec 18, 11:28 PM # - #125 Bill O
Why hasn’t Harry Reid gone to the New York Times DNC controlled liberal rag with your story?
— joro Dec 18, 11:35 PM # - #126. The DEA has greater authority for wire taps and information searches than what was available to fight terrorists. That is clearly the fault of our Congress that was controlled by Democrats for 40 years. Soft on crime Democrats are more concerned about the rights of criminals and terrorists than victims. I wish my Senator, Harry Reid, would become an American instead of a partisan hack. He should work on getting legislation enacted that would protect American lives instead of putting us at risk by his killing the Patriot Act and his constant whining about President Bush and Republicans.
— joro Dec 18, 11:48 PM # - #126
It’s a good story. Pointless and immaterial regarding Al Qaeda, 9/11, and the monitoring of terrorists, but a good story.
The credibility of Larry Johnson doesn’t seem to be all that great. In fact, it stinks. Two reasons. First, he’s not a lawyer, and obviously doesn’t understand the difference between tracking the hitman of a mafia-like gang interested in making money and tracking the types of individuals who fly commercial airliners into 110-story buildings. Two, he appears to have been a lousy agent for the CIA (I understand he was decorated; for what, I don’t know). I point to two op-ed pieces he wrote for the New York Times.
This one, bu Milt Beardon and Larry Johnson, “A Glimpse at the Alliances of Terror,” N.Y. Times, Nov. 7, 2000, A29 (link is http://www.law.syr.edu/faculty/banks/terrorism/dummyfl/beardon_johnson.pdf). Here are the relevant parts:
“By contrast, American attempts to blast Osama Bin Laden out of his Afghan redoubt have elevated him to levels of mystical power in the Islamic world. Yes, there is something between indictments and cruise missiles—a middle ground of covert action and clandestine operations—and these options should be kept on the table. But the new administration, no matter who wins today’s presidential election, will have to concentrate on consistently applying diplomatic and legal pressures to the states
implicated, even passively, in acts of terror.
The United States has isolated Afghanistan’s ruling Taliban diplomatically as part of its demand that they hand over Mr. bin Laden for trial, but the Taliban claim that the United States has not made a convincing case against him. The testimony of Ali Mohamed might provide them with what they need to move him out of Afghanistan and into an Islamic court in a third country acceptable to the United States. At the very least, it should bring new seriousness to the dialogue now under way between Taliban leaders and American Ambassador William Milam in Pakistan.”
Obviously, that didn’t happen. Johnson finishes up the piece with:
“The Clinton administration has shot its bolt on the terrorist problem with small effect, and a flashy show of force during the next few months will not change the record. The new administration can start afresh with a more sharply defined set of goals—for starters, bringing Mr. Mughniyah and Mr. bin Laden and their protectors to justice—and bring the full, coordinated force of American legal, diplomatic, military, and intelligence capabilities to bear on the problem.”
Then, Johnson writes a gem for the New York Times on July 10, 2001 (two months before 9/11), called “The Declining Terrorist Threat” (link is http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/10/opinion/10JOHN.html?ex=1135141200&en=afe195fe5e35d1d6&ei=5070). It starts with the following:
“Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.”
The second paragraph begins with this gem:
“None of these beliefs are based in fact.”
Middle of third paragraph:
“But the overall terrorist trend is down. According to the Central Intelligence Agency, deaths from international terrorism fell to 2,527 in the decade of the 1990’s, from 4,833 in the 80’s.”
On 9/11/2001, 3000 people were killed. On one day, 500 more people were killed than in the whole decade of the 1990’s. Why? Because jerks like Johnson didn’t seem to understand their job was to gather intelligence to protect the US, not write articles for the New York Times.
Let’s go on:
“Although high-profile incidents have fostered the perception that terrorism is becoming more lethal, the numbers say otherwise, and early signs suggest that the decade beginning in 2000 will continue the downward trend. A major reason for the decline is the current reluctance of countries like Iraq, Syria and Libya, which once eagerly backed terrorist groups, to provide safe havens, funding and training.”
Considering how stupid and wrong the first parts of this paragraph are, his statements regarding Iraq and Syria can be completely discounted. More than likely, he didn’t have a clue as to what was going on with Iraq, Syria, or Libya.
Onward:
“Finally, there are bureaucracies in the military and in intelligence agencies that are desperate to find an enemy to justify budget growth. In the 1980’s, when international terrorism was at its zenith, NATO and the United States European Command pooh-poohed the notion of preparing to fight terrorists. They were too busy preparing to fight the Soviets. With the evil empire gone, they “discovered” terrorism as an important priority.”
This clown was part of the intelligence bureaucracy that failed the nation. If Johnson was one of the key players in keeping the administration abreast of the key threats, its no mystery as to why the administration didn’t stop the 9/11 attacks; bureaucrats like Johnson didn’t seem to consider this as any kind of threat.
— Steve Dec 19, 12:18 AM # - yeah, that goddamned constitution, it’s just a piece of paper anyway, right?
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 12:42 AM # - What was the title of the memo Richard Clarke tried to hand GW pre 9/11?
I think it was called BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO ATTACK INSIDE U.S.
I think Bush was golfing at the time. There’s your failed intelligence.
As an added bonus, I’ll repost the Sibel Emonds interview. For you and you only Steve.
In response to Linda Loo, I present Sibel Edmonds. FBI translator and whistleblower put under a gag order used only once before in the history of the FBI.
————————————————————————————
SE: The fact that there are no investigations – I will give you an analogy, okay? Say if we decided to have a “war on drugs,” but said in the beginning, “right, we’re only going to go after the young black guys on the street level.” Hey, we already have tens of thousands of them in our jails anyway, why not a few more? But we decided never to go after the middle levels, let alone the top levels…
It’s like this with the so-called war on terror. We go for the Attas and Hamdis – but never touch the guys on the top.
CD: You think they [the government] know who they are, the top guys, and where?
SE: Oh yeah, they know.
CD: So why don’t they get them?
SE: It’s like I told you before – this would upset “certain foreign relations.” But it would also expose certain of our elected officials, who have significant connections with high-level drugs- and weapons-smuggling – and thus with the criminal underground, even with the terrorists themselves.
————————————————————————————
State Department the Source of All Evil?
CD: I know you can’t name names, but are there any government agencies in particular that you can single out as being more corrupt or more involved with the substance of your allegations?
SE: The Department of State.
CD: What, the most corrupt?
SE: The Department of State is easily the most corrupted of the major government agencies.
CD: That’s interesting. I sometimes think of the State Department as being fairly emasculated, relatively speaking, of course not the “good guys,” but surely not as evil as certain other agencies… but you have some personal experience that tells you otherwise?
SE: You asked me before about the good FBI agents and bad, which group is really in control. I can tell you, in my case, the decision to terminate the investigation and bury my allegations, this decision was not made by the FBI. It came directly from the Department of State.
CD: Really! I didn’t know they had the power to interfere with FBI work.
SE: Oh, of course they do! And the agent that handled the case I was working on, that person was so frustrated. It was all stopped because the State Department was dictating to us.
————————————————————————————
SE: In some cases where the FBI stumbles upon evidence of high-level officials being involved in drug-smuggling, they’re even prevented from sharing it with the DEA [Drug Enforcement Agency]. The Department of State just comes in and says, “Leave it.”
You know, it’s funny, after 9/11, the common criticism was that there was “no information-sharing” between the FBI, CIA, and the like, and this is why the terrorists pulled it off – as if we didn’t want to cooperate. No information-sharing? That’s the biggest BS I ever heard!
CD: So you’re saying that the whole process of sorting through the intelligence you received, executing investigations, and getting information where it needed to go was prevented by the State Department?
SE: Several times, yes.
————————————————————————————
http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=6934
— Horkus Dec 19, 12:43 AM # - www.newamericancentury.org
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 01:07 AM # - #136
The Sibel Edmonds interview is an interesting piece. I also began reading some of the Vanity Fair article from earlier this year on her. It sounds interesting and looks like she may have a real case. I would have read further, but getting tired.
However, don’t go quoting Richard Clarke to me. On page 134 of the 9/11 Commission report:
“In February 1999,Allen proposed flying a U-2 mission over Afghanistan to build a baseline of intelligence outside the areas where the tribals had coverage. Clarke was nervous about such a mission because he continued to fear that Bin Ladin might leave for someplace less accessible. He wrote Deputy National Security Advisor Donald Kerrick that one reliable source reported Bin Ladin’s having met with Iraqi officials, who “may have offered him asylum.” Other intelligence sources said that some Taliban leaders, though not Mullah Omar, had urged Bin Ladin to go to Iraq. If Bin Ladin actually moved to Iraq, wrote Clarke,his network would be at Saddam Hussein’s service,and it would be “virtually impossible” to find him. Better to get Bin Ladin in Afghanistan, Clarke declared.134 Berger suggested sending one U-2 flight,but Clarke opposed even this. It would require Pakistani approval, he wrote; and “Pak[istan’s] intel[ligence service] is in bed with” Bin Ladin and would warn him that the United States was getting ready for a bombing campaign: “Armed with that knowledge,old wily Usama will likely boogie to Baghdad.”135”
The numbers 134 and 135 have to do with notes at the end of the report.
Anyway, it’s interesting that Clarke took issue with the Bush administration for thinking Iraq was responsible for 9/11 when even Clarke himself believed bin Laden and Saddam had some kind of relationship in the past. So, the fact that currently there is no direct evidence implicating Saddam with 9/11 (and I’m not implicating him here), it has been twisted that Saddam had no relationship with Al Qaeda and bin Laden, even though Clarke believed there was during the Clinton years.
So, which is it? A CIA that didn’t believe Al Qaeda or bin Laden was credible threat? A terrorist czar who believed there was a relationship between Saddam and bin Laden, until Bush thought Saddam might have been involved in 9/11 (a reasonable assumption considering his past dealings with terrorists)? And with all due respect to the Sibel Edmonds article, she wasn’t part of the FBI before 9/11 and was not an eyewitness to events there at the time. What about Able Danger and the possibility that both the Clinton and Bush administrations completely missed data that could’ve thwarted OBL? If anything, the fact that the current DoD hierarchy still has not come forward with Able Danger info is extremely worrying. But not because of anything Clarke says. His credibility, like Larry Johnson’s, is shot.
— Steve Dec 19, 01:36 AM # - Bill—-Regarding #45
I couldn’t babysit my computer, but I made it back to—yet again, to point out where you are wrong.
—Lib comment
You can go ahead and attack liberals if it makes you feel better. But you might want to ponder the fact that the Founding Fathers of this country were liberals. The liberal administrations of Wilson and Roosevelt led the United States to victory in two world wars. Liberals are patriots, and they always have been.—END Lib comment
I am not afraid of the word liberal no more than I fear the word terrorism, socialism or communism. It is your set of beliefs and the actions based on them that I fear. You may call yourself whatever label you wish, but today’s liberals are nothing like our founding fathers. Our founding fathers would rather be shot dead with a gun preserved from the second amendment than to be lumped in with Michael Moore, Move On, Harry Reid, John Kerry and you. A little eduction. Go and read the communist manifesto. Shouldn’t be hard to find on your book shelf. Todays liberal party is supporting in some manner 9 of the 10 tenets of the communist manifesto.
FDR, the liberal’s God who brought them the “new socialist deal”, placed over 100,000 Japanese-Americans in prison camps in WWII. Big ‘W’ wire taps international phone calls to known terrorist contacts and you want to impeach him as a traitor. Complete hipocracy!!
—Lib comment
1) We want an administration that makes decisions based upon FACTS. We don’t have that, we have an administration that is makes decisions based upon rigid ideological beliefs.—END Lib comment
Here we go again. No WMDs. Where are the facts? You Lied!! You know executive power is based on intelligence. Just because intelligence turns up wrong, doesn’t make it a lie. You libs are trying to attach Bush to ANY impeachable offense, even if you have to craft one up out of thin air. Your hatred of Bush blinds you to common sense facts. Sadam WAS an unruly tyrant who had and used WMDs. The majority of the dems in congress stood up and preached it on high. Are they liers too? Someone of Sadam’s caliber does not just hand over WMDs because of some economic pressure like the oil for food, especially when he and half of Europe was getting rich off of it. There was also Iraq and Russian activity near the Syrian border just before we went in. What do you think they were moving? Flower bouquets to there loved ones abroad. When WMDs turn up in Syria with Iraq and Russian labels on the crates, I am going to split my spleen laughing.
—Lib comment
2) We want an American government that takes responsibility for its mistakes. We don’t have that. We have an administration that conceals its mistakes and demonizes anyone who dares criticize it. —END Lib comment
You want to criticise, but don’t want any backlash from a thinking American public. Lest you forget, you are in the minority, which means the majority of America feels you are wrong. Bush will never say going into Iraq was a mistake, because it was not. He HAS said time and time again the intelligence was faulty. Not sure what more you want. For him to get down and kiss Harry’s feet. Dream on.
—Lib comment
3) We want an American government that respects the patriotism of people who disagree with current government policies. We don’t have that. We have an administration that blames EVERY problem on “the left” or the “liberal media” or “the evildoers.” —END Lib comment
Liberals bring blame on themselves with their stupid actions. You know the first amendment does not apply to slander. There is so much slander on the Senate floor it makes me sick. Honest critisism is respected by conservatives. Partisan lieing is called what it is… unpatriotic. In a time of war some might call it treason.
—Lib comment
4) We want an American government that considers the truth a valuable tool for governing. We dont have that. We have an administration that considers the truth an obstacle to overcome as it pursues its covert agendas.—END Lib comment
See number 3 above. Libs can never see the truth when they build a bed of lies.
—Lib comment
5) We want an American government that honors the service and sacrifices of our soldiers by leading a logical, coherent war on global terrorism. We don’t have that. We have an administration that has been obsessed about Iraq since Day 1 and is fighting the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place. —END Lib comment
This is a laughing stock. All you know is appeasement. Check your history and see what appeasers are awarded. No one respects American soldiers more than our president. Tell me. How is libs demoralizing our soldiers with lies on Iraq’s progress honoring them? There ARE good things happening there and all we see is CNN rolling over body counts like McDonalds displays numbered served. I mourn ANY American loss, but libs also have no perspective of casualties in War time situations. Doves want no war, no matter what the consequences are. Do you know Aljazeera quotes more American Democratic senators than any other politician in the world? Is that honoring our soldiers.
—Lib comment
6) We want an American government that understands that democracies cannot survive without political compromise. We don’t have that. This administration projects self-righteous omniscience and considers political compromise a sign of weakness.—END Lib comment
It is also about the ebb and flow of society. If our society goes too far to the left, it adjusts at the ballot box. If it goes too far to the right, it will adjust again. There is no such thing as “Minority Rights” on the Senate floor. It is called losing, so deal with it. Win back in 2006 and your pigs can feed at the trough again.
—Lib comment
I respect what you are trying to accomplish in Iraq, however a Muslim “nation” of 22,000,000 people cannot be stabilized by 130,000 foreign soldiers. Tragically, while you are saving a few trees, the whole forest is burning down around you. Our misadventure in Iraq is making the global situation worse, not better.—END Lib comment
Typical lib comment above. Throw out a large exclamation with no basis and see if it sticks. Repeat it enough in the media and hopefully people will believe it. An no you don’t respect what we are trying to do. That is crap. You can not possibly understand if Iraq is working or is in fact a “misadventure” when you refuse to look at the numorous positives going on. For Pete’s sake, Democracy blooms with major elections in an astoundingly short amount of time and Schummer digs up Rove allegations from the cellar to attempt to fill the media vacume. Pathetic. Libs are the glass is half empty, chicken littles.
— Kerry Lost Dec 19, 08:13 AM # - WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? REJOICING AT YOUR “DEFEAT” OF THE PATRIOT ACT? YOU WERE JUST BESIDE YOURSELF WITH GLEE…ARE YOU SO BLIND YOU CANNOT SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES?
NO WONDER YOUR OWN HOME STATE OF NEVADA IS SUCH A MESS..BRING BACK THE MOBSTERS, CAUSE YOU ARE TRYING TO ACT LIKE ONE ANYWAY….
IF THIS COUNTRY AND YOU “SPOILED” POLITICIANS DO NOT START WORKING TOGETHER FOR THIS COUNTRY AND PEOPLES, THIS COUNTRY IS DOOMED..I HAVE LIVED A LONG TIME AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THE TYPE OF GARBAGE I HAVE SEEN WITH YOU DEMOCRATS..
I AM A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT BUT, NO LONGER..I WILL NOT BE AFFIALIATED WITH THE LIKES OF THE YOU DEMOCRATS THAT CRY LIKE A SPOILED CHILD WHEN THEY DON’T GET THEIR OWN WAY AND THEN TRY TO “MY” COUNTRY UNSAFE…YOU ARE NO BETTER THE THE DICTATORS THAT WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING TO GET RID OF..
GROW UP!!!!!!!
— MARSHA FOSTER Dec 19, 08:34 AM # - “warned that planned congressional hearings into the eavesdropping would assist America’s terrorist enemies.”
Sounds like he’s got a lot more to hide, if Bush can’t take an investigation into his antics, he needs to be impeached.
BUSH BROKE THE LAW.
Spin it any way you want, you won’t change the fact.
If there is not grand jury formed on this one because of politics, why don’t we put it on the ‘06 ballot?
Lets ask the public (the real boss) whether there should be a full inquiry into this travesty.
What is it with you BushCult people? Post 140 above is a good example. Just where uis this mighty million member army that you fear? Do you think they all have plabne tickets to America? You all have been brainwashed to believe a tiny handful of terrorists have the power to take down the greatest nation in the world, which only proves you have very little faith in America as a nation, unless your bully bosses are at the helm, coking the books and torturing our enemies.
The lies Bush and his cronies have told us for the past five years and the changes they have tried to make in our basic legal rights, have done more to erode what we call The American Way than any enemy in our history could have ever done. You have all surrendered to sn army that does not even exist.
As long as you are willing to let them run roughshod over the rights of our own citizens and the human rights of many other nations and peoples, you give them the only power on Earth that can take us down.
“THIS COUNTRY IS DOOMED” is a statement trhat represents this travesty. Just who is going to bring that doom upon us? If anyone, it will be this administration, and even they are losing their power every day, as more and more of their subterfuge hits the public psyche.
The only thing that is doomed is these brainwashed alarmist’s excuses to cry “doom” every time their cult-leader gets confronted with the Truth. If Bush can’t atake the heat, its time to remove him from our kitchen.
Our nation is not so fragile that a hundred terrorist attacks could ever erode our rights away. Only we can do that, by enabling our leaders to manipulate the law without our advice and consent.
If we do not impeach Cheney and Bush, the only thing that is doomed is our respect from future generations of free-thinking Americans. The question of the future classroooms will be “If the puiblic and Congress knew that Bush and Cheney broke the law, why didn’t they impeach them?”
Watch out for the mighty horde of terrorists amassing against us, they’re gonna ttack any day now!!! Thye put pontoons on their old Toyota pickups and they’re comin’ to git us!!!
Alert level purple!!!
Woe is me woe is me, we are doomed!!!
GIVE US A BREAK!!
Stop looking for some mighty army where there are just handfuls of terrorists.
I don’t suggest for a moment that there could be no more terrorist attacks. But like 9-11 and Oklahoma City, it will take more than isolated incedents, no matter how horrendous, to bring us to the breaking point. All of you who use this argument are just taking the WH talking points to the extreme.
If you live in fear, you deny the Truth.
Our nation is not doomed. Unless we give it up to the neocons and their world-dominance agenda.
Then we might have some real problems.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 09:52 AM # - BTW, Kerry didn’t lose, Bush cheated. There’s no getting over it.
Too late now to turn back the clock and make it right, but the future holds some interesting twists that will expose the truth so even you BushCult brainwashed buffoons won’t be able to avoid it.
I know you will always be able to deny it, but that is the foundation of your brainwashing.
Defend Bush at all costs, even if he steals your rights away. Like some kidnapping victim who helps their own kidnapper rob a bank.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 10:00 AM # - J. Patterson… to quote Harry Reid about an intelligent, strong president, “your an idiot”.
It only takes a “hand full of terrorists” to bring down major buildings, such as 9-11. A handful with WMDs can bring down a city. What city do you live in and we’ll point them your way.
You wrote, “Our nation is not so fragile that a hundred terrorist attacks could ever erode our rights away.”
That is exactly what the dems would bring us. A hundred terrorist attacks.
You cry fowl so loudly about 2000 American deaths in Iraq to combat global terrorism and are so flippant about 100 attacks x 3000 (which died in Twin Towers) = 300,000. Wow, you are definetly not a math major. Thank GOD you lost AND will lose again in 06’
With dems like that, who needs enemies.
— Kerry Lost Dec 19, 10:25 AM # - There’s only one of the RNC posts that is worthy of response, the statement that suggests Richard Clarke has no credibility.
Just like Joe Wilson? Now we know they were right, why does it seem that they were patently ignored?Why is it only the ones who were right that are now labeled discredited? Is being right a prerequisite for being boosted from the Bush administration??
How many reliable sources were ignored because they did not provide the lies and half-truths our administration depended on tro make its flimsy case for war? Now, Ken Mehlman and his crew get on our blog and try to tell us the very people who got it right have somehow been discredited?
BECAUSE THEY WERE RIGHT???
When are you pro-trolls going to realize, you can pull that mindnumbing BS on Fox News, but here on this blog, it just enfuriates those of us who know the truth.
Clarke hasNEVER been discredited, nor has Joe Wilson, except in yours and Karls Rove’s spin rooms. And on Fox News.
No one with any credibility even suggests that Richard Clarke and Joe Wilson were “wrong” any more, as a matter of fact, we know now they were right all along.
Every Bush administration expert who questioned the run-up to war and the use of highly questionable “intelligence” was forced out fo the WH loop.
People like Richard Clarke and Joe Wilson were the very experts you people had in the first place, and when they did not agree with your war plans and your lies, you boosted them or dissed them publicly.
YOU FIRED OR OUTED THE ONLY PEOPLE WHOSE ADVICE WAS CORRECT!!!!
NOW YOU SAY YOUR INTELLIGENCE WAS FAULTY?
If you fire or exclude anyone who gives you good advice, you must be looking for bad advice.
WHY WERE THESE EXPERTS IGNORED AND MARGINALIZED?
WHY WASN’T THEIR C O R R E C T ADVICE HEEDED?
BUSH LIED. Or else he’s a bona fide moron. I would guess it is primarily the former, not the latter.
Either way, he should be impeached, the same people who are now protecting this administration would have screamed bloody murder if Clinton had done any of this. I wonder if Clinton had authorized illegal wiretaps on neonazis, what you repub trolls would have done to him?
You people need to move offshore with all that corporate money, and start your own country, “conceived in deception and dedicated to the proposition that all neocons are created superior.”
Call it the United State of Bush.
But please, give this nation back to those of us who are willing to actually protect it, not from some imaginary Muslim Army in pontoon mounted Toyota trucks, but from our own President and his “Band of Bullies.”
They are the real threat.
Save it for Fox News, Ken, we know better.
You Republican whiners need to stop defending Bush and start looking for some new faces to put out front, the old ones have all been discredited.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 10:27 AM # - Ah JP, I love the way you write. You know, I believe #140 is just one of the same trolls signed in under different name.
One thing that gets me is that people don’t realize that PNAC including Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rove, and many more current policy makers came up with this idea to invade the middle east and Iraq back in 1997-98. It’s plainly published at their website here>www.newamericancentury.org, yet no one ever mentions PNAC nor it’s influence on today’s foreign policy. Many claim including Oneal and Clark that this was Bush’s main interest from day one. The fact that this was their plan even back in the late 90’s is ignored.
A representative was on c-span this morning and said he didn’t think impeachment was appropiate. He was a democrat. When the hell would it be appropiate?
Obviously the GOP has more money and owns more resources and is much more able to get the neocon propaganda out to the public much better than the opposition.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 10:33 AM # - Ken;
Are you prepatred to give up your rights because people have died in terrorist attacks?
I’m not.
One of my ancestors dies fighting the British in December of 1776. They died so my rights could be established, the very rights you are so cavalierly prepared to give up.
Just what is your ation worth to you, if you are willing to cut and run from our historic Freedoms at the threat of violence?
You are a hostage of your own fears, which have been nurtured and increased by this current administration.
And you try very hard to make others as fearflu as yourselves. But it isn’t working.
Can’t keep you from trying, but you will never convince me or any other free-thinkng American that our liberties must be surrendered fior the sake of our security.
Our liberties, no matter how obscure, were won with a million lives in a hundred battles. Now you want to give them up because you are afraid.
Courage is a rare thing tehese days in the Republican Party. They mostly talk about how courageous our soldiers and how afraid our citizens should be.
As for “06, keep wishin’ and hopin’ and dreamin’ and schemin’. It will all come out in the wash.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 10:35 AM # - Kerry Lost, man I just want to know if you’ve read any of the PNAC website? Especially the pdf file called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.”
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 10:41 AM # - “That is exactly what the dems would bring us. A hundred terrorist attacks.”
Thank you for making my point about Republicans being scared of imaginary armies even more valid.
What a moronic statement.
Literal proof of how brainwashed some of you people have become.
You don’t need wiretaps spying on American peace movements to protect us from foreign terrorists.
You only need wiretaps on American peace movements to protect Bush from public opinion.
If you are so worried about terrorism, why did you quit on Bin Laden and go after Saddam?
You Republicans have created more vengeful terrorists in five years than Israel created in 50.
And now you want to blame the Democrats for it.
What a bunch of chickens.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 10:46 AM # - Bill;
google-up Bush’s first inaugural speech, and read the last paragraph, especially the last sentence about angels in the whirlwind, that is so out-of-context.
Then consider in the retrospect of recent history.
Who do you suppose he meant that “warning” for?
Bush’s handlers planned to attack Saddam long before he was selected by the Supreme Court as President, and that sentence proves it.
He used our national podium and our sacred ceremony to toss a cowboy threat at Saddam.
We should have seen it coming. Some of us did.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 10:50 AM # - And there you have it in #141. Complete liberal and Democrat disconnect from reality (with the exception of Lieberman). The hatred of George W. Bush is just unbelievable. Blame Bush for 9/11, then blame Bush for trying to stop another one. One leak after another, about thoroughly legal processes, comes out by cry-baby bureaucrats and there’s never a complaint about who is doing the leaking, unless it is about the great secret agent Double-O Soccer Mom, the wife of “Yellowcake” Wilson. They offer no alternatives, just endlessly whine about their nihilistic, self-centered lives. Read anything Nancy Pelosi says and you will see this is true.
And for kickers, liberals will come out with statements about themselves and attribute it to others. Here’s an example from #141:
“The lies Bush and his cronies have told us for the past five years and the changes they have tried to make in our basic legal rights, have done more to erode what we call The American Way than any enemy in our history could have ever done. You have all surrendered to sn army that does not even exist.”
No, the lies from the Democrats and their cronies put this country into a massive recession of which 9/11 only made worse. The ACLU lies to America by saying the boogeymen are the Republicans trying to take away the rights of individuals, but only work to represent those who want to view child porn, or the right to call the practice of driving spikes through the heads of children as they’re being born (partial-birth abortion), and to allow this practice whenever somebody wants it done (partial-birth abortion on demand), a form of birth control or health care. And without spousal or parental consent. Add to this the endless political correctness espoused by liberals destroying free speech in this country.
Election after election shows that the American people know what the problem is, and each election slowly removes these problems. Tom Daschle was one of those problems. He’s no longer in the Senate, is he?
— Steve Dec 19, 10:59 AM # - Who said this KerryLost or Steve?
“Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.”
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 11:02 AM # - Senator Reid. I am really very disappointed in you and your party.
WHERE IS THE CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT???????
The president has violated the Constitution of the United States, a document he was sworn to uphold. Not to mention violating the Geneva Convention, doing a horrible job of managing the Katrina Crisis, and throwing this country into it’s worse debt EVER.
HOW MUCH MORE WILL HE HAVE TO FUCK UP BEFORE YOU GUYS REMOVE HIM FROM OFFICE?
— stonygirl Dec 19, 11:04 AM # - Or this> “American soldiers are dumb animals to be used in the furtherance of ‘our’ foreign policy.”?
I suppose this guy is your hero as well?
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 11:06 AM # - The constitution? Stop throwing that in my face, it’s just a goddamned piece of paper!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 11:09 AM # - The blogs are ablaze with debate over Bush’s illegal spying on american citizens. But not this one. Instead, what do we get from Reid? A mincing and embarrassing endorsement of Bush’s “candor” about Iraq. Never mind that in his speech Monkey Boy misled us about Iraqi troop strength, (again), saying that more than 126 Iraqi battalions were now engaged in “fighting the enemy” and “more than 50 are taking the lead”. But “taking the lead” in military jargon actually means that they are “in charge”, but unable to conduct operations without our transition teams and our material support. How many Iraq battalions are ACTUALLY CAPABLE of conducting operations independent of our support (“Level 1” capability)???? ONE. Uno. How many men is that??? 600. Funny Reid doesn’t point that out in his “appreciative” essay on Bush’s new “candor”.
Bush also cited a recent poll that was sponsored jointly by ABC News, Time Magazine, and other news organizations. He quoted almost verbatim, stating that “Seven in ten Iraqis say their lives are going well, and nearly two thirds expect things to improve even more in the year ahead”. But golly, he failed to note that the same poll found that not even half of the Iraqis polled, 46%, said their country was better off than it was under Saddam. 50% said it was WRONG for for the United States to attack Iraq. And TWO THIIRDS said they OPPOSED THE CONTINUED PRESENCE OF U.S. TROOPS.
Does Reid cite Bush’s misleading selection of the poll’s findings? Nope. I guess in Reid’s mind Bush’s misrepresentations and over-optimistic political bullshit constitutes a “new openess”. But not in Anthony H. Cordesman’s mind, a sholar at the Center for Startegic and International Studies who has generally been supportive of Bush’s strategy in Iraq….
“HE’S CHERRY PICKED NUMBERS AND I THINK ROUNDED THEM UP….(he’s) IGNORED ALL THE NEGATIVES”.
Well, apparently, so has Reid.
Harry, where is Phase Two?
Harry, why aren’t you addressing Bush’s criminal spying on American citizens here, instead of offering sacharin endorsements of a policy of MORE LIES?
Harry, when are you going to represent us?
(The above startistics and quotes are from a 12/17 Los Angeles Times article)
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 11:10 AM # - bill of rights? just another gd piece of paper too, right?
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 11:11 AM # - By the way, San Fran Nan (Pelosi) said the word Christmas the other day. Shouldn’t the ACLU be out trying to get her thrown out of Congress for this obvious attempt to subvert the Establishment clause? I mean, she’s egregiously violating the sacred separation of church (actually religion) and state. Or, is it OK because she’s a liberal as well as a Democrat?
I hope all of the libs here are offended at my next statement.
Merry Christmas
— Steve Dec 19, 11:12 AM # - Here’s a primer for you Stevie…
http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/PNAC-Primer.htm
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 11:19 AM # - Senator Reid. I am really very disappointed in you and your party.
WHERE IS THE CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT???????
The president has violated the Constitution of the United States, a document he was sworn to uphold. Not to mention violating the Geneva Convention, doing a horrible job of managing the Katrina Crisis, and throwing this country into it’s worse debt EVER.
— stonygirl
Shhhh, Stonygirl, don’t distract Harry, he’s “giving Bush hell” right now about Bush’s “increased candor” about HOW we went to war…..
“During this time, the president has reached out and spoken more directly than ever before about how we went to war and why it is important to achieve victory, a goal we all share. ”
Stonygirl, reflect a moment. Why would Reid use the word HOW instead of the word WHY???? Well, I believe I can answer that question….
The explanation of HOW we went to war does not require a definition of the “victory” that Reid alludes to. If Reid addresses WHY we went to war than the definition of “victory” becomes self evident. Neither one of these pissants, Bush OR Reid, dare define “victory” in Iraq because it underscores the LIES we were told about the WHY behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq.
(BTW, be sure to feed a troll while you are here, it seems to have become the purpose of this blog.)
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 11:35 AM # - The massive recession “Steve” mentions started when Bush let his Texas Enron buddies blackout California, which burst the dot-com bubble and started the “recession” you somehow want to blame on Clinton. Just look at a calendar, the proof is forever etched into the chronology of truth that the revisionists will never be able to change.
Bush has been the instrument of the biggest devaluation of American monetary value and political prestige in the history of our nation.
You can’t defer Bush’s catastrophic economic policy failures on anyone else, but no doubt you will keep trying.
If you have the courage to speak the truth, then give us the $ figures for Bush’s deficit versus Clinton’s surplus.
Spin it all day long, but you’re stuck in the mud. Repeat; Bush has overseen the biggest loss of American net worth in the history of this nation.
After 5 years, the Dow Jones is still below where it was in Clinton’s era. he Nasdaq isn’t even close.
The Republicans are no longer the party of fiscal conservatives and small government. Since that was at one time their very identity, then what do we call them now that their old label doesn’t fit?
$1000 toilet seats and billion dollar no-bid contracts are the new Reublican labels.
Where has the R E A L GOP disappeared to?
PS Calling Joe Wilson “yellowcake” and trivializing his wife as a soccer mom, suggesting she wasn’t actually a classified agent, only proves how big your lies are.
You can’t even defend your own party without these cheap emotional catchphrases.
Be careful, the term 00-Soccer mom has a very populist ring to it, and you are not only offending all the soccer moms aout there by trivializing their daily life, you are trashing the soccer-moms in the CIA and FBI who actually do have families while they also have secret lives.
Are you suggesting because she is a mother and lives in the suburbs that she isn’t competent to be an agent?
Sounds like a chauvanist pig to me.
I suppose you wish the whole Wilson family would just disappear, because its very hard for reasonable, patriotic people to look at them and see anything but an All-American, very courageous family, with the kind of core values you pretend to defend.
HYPOCRITES!!! Valerie Wilson is a hero and you are all cowards, afraid there’s a Muslim trerrorist in every closet.
You give Bin Laden his power just by believing these lies and spouting them to your more-ignorant circle of brainwashed Bushcult groupies.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 11:39 AM # - From POA;
Harry, where is Phase Two?
Harry, why aren’t you addressing Bush’s criminal spying on American citizens here, instead of offering sacharin endorsements of a policy of MORE LIES?
Harry, when are you going to represent us?”
Harry, I have to agree with this one, we need for you and Congress to do its work.
Bring Bush and Cheney up on charges, and start the process towards impeachment, or at least form a committee to look into it.
I made this suggestion in one of my very first posts, or maybe it was on Conyer’s blog, but the idea was that if you would simply form even a partisan Impeachment Committee of some sort, it would legitimize the idea of impeachment, and keep the Repubs from calling it some sort of extreme measure.
Impeachment is no longer an extreme measure, the Repubs changed that when they went after Clinton.
If they can impeach Clinton for lying about sexcapades, then we can impeach Bush for ordering illegal wiretaps and Cheney for lying about Saddam’s WMD and ordering someone to forge those phony Niger yellowcake documents.
At least get the dialogue into the public record, so we can all feel like you and the rest of our leaders are willing to take some chances with your own political careers by standing up to these bullies.
You and the rest of the Democrats who know Bush is dangerous for our nation are all we have left People are very, very pissed-off, and Bush is trying to ignore it.
I hope you and the rest of the Democrats take it to heart, every day there is no response to Bush’s continuing violations of our laws, the more angry they become.
For the good of our nation, Bush should step down, and take his cabal with him, particularly Cheney. But since we all know that won’t happen, we must impeach them both.
At least Nixon had the dignity to resign.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 11:56 AM # - HEY REID. THE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT THAT YOU GIVE CONYERS IS GOING TO SHOW US WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE THE MEWLING COWARD I BELIEVE YOU ARE. TIME TO PISS OR GET OFF THE POT, HARRY.
The Constitution in Crisis: Censure and Investigate Possible Impeachment
For more information, go to www.johnconyers.com Cross Posted at Huffington Post and DailyKos Today, I am releasing a staff report entitled, “The Constitution in Crisis: The Downing Street Minutes and…
For more information, go to www.johnconyers.com
Cross Posted at Huffington Post and DailyKos
Today, I am releasing a staff report entitled, “The Constitution in Crisis: The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution and Coverups in the Iraq War.
Before talking about the report, I must express my profound gratitude to the readers of this site, who kept this story alive when no one would cover it, and continued to talk about it after some in the media moved on. Much of the research in this report is a product of the input and hard work of DailyKos, Huffington Post and Conyersblog readers over the last six months (the help with my “timeline project” was particularly useful). I also am so grateful to progressive talk radio hosts and listeners, who have refused to allow the American people to forget the nation was deceived into war.
Now on to the Report and what I plan to do about it. In sum, the report examines the Bush Administration?s actions in taking us to war from A to Z. The report finds there is substantial evidence the President, the Vice-President and other high ranking members of the Bush Administration misled Congress and the American people regarding the decision to go to war in Iraq; misstated and manipulated intelligence information regarding the justification for such war; countenanced torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in Iraq; and permitted inappropriate retaliation against critics of their Administration.
The Report concludes that a number of these actions amount to prima facie evidence (evidence sufficiently strong to presume the allegations are true) that federal criminal laws have been violated. Legal violations span from false statements to Congress to whistleblower laws.
The Report also concludes that these charges clearly rise to the level of impeachable conduct. However, because the Administration has failed to respond to requests for information about these charges, it is not yet possible to conclude that an impeachment inquiry or articles of impeachment are warranted.
In response to the Report, I have already taken a number of actions. First, I have introduced a resolution (H. Res. 635) creating a Select Committee with subpoena authority to investigate the misconduct of the Bush Administration with regard to the Iraq war and report on possible impeachable offenses. In Watergate, for example, the Congress did not begin matters as an impeachment inquiry, but investigated matters ? through the Ervin Committee ? and referred impeachable evidence to the Judiciary Committee.
Second, I have introduced Resolutions regarding both President Bush (H. Res. 636) and Vice-President Cheney (H. Res. 637) proposing that they be censured by Congress based on the uncontroverted evidence already on the record and their failure to respond to Congressional and public inquiries about these matters and have never accounted for their many specific misstatements in the run up to War.
As you know, taking these steps means that I am likely to be criticized by the political and media establishments in Washington and attacked by the right wing noise machine. There is a school of thought among Washington political consultants that criticizing the President about Iraq will make Democrats appear to be weak on national security. There is a media establishment that marginalizes politicians for espousing beliefs held by the majority of Americans. The right wing noise machine in turn retaliates against the President’s critics.
Be that as it may, I just could not be silent any longer. The title of the report is exactly right: the Constitution is in Crisis. There are serious and well-substantiated allegations that the Executive Branch has usurped the sole power of the Congress to declare war by deceiving the Congress about the evidence for war. There are serious and well-substantiated allegations that the Executive Branch has deceived the American people to manufacture the people’s consent for war.
If you agree with me, I am going to need your help like never before. Please go to my website, www.johnconyers.com, where you will find an action center, including a copy of the Report via Raw Story, and ways you can help. Also visit www.censurebush.com to join with other activists who want to move this issue forward.
http://www.conyersblog.us/archives/00000328.htm#comments
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 12:06 PM # - Will there be any mention of PNAC and their member’s current positions in the government in this report? Will there be any reference to the fact that todays foreign policies are PNAC’s policy? Expose the roots of this deception!
www.newamericancentury.org
http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/PNAC-Primer.htm
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 12:21 PM # - POA;
If you think you’re the only person on this blog who has demanded action from our leaders, particularly Harry, you haven’t gone back and checked out much earlier posts.
Some of us were calling for impeachment long before you joined our blog circle, but you apparently haven’t taken the time to check out the background, you jump in like the Lone Patriot, and you don’t know you are surrounded by people just like yourself, but with different personal language restrictions.
Also, I do make sport of the trolls, I’ve been doing it since the term BLOG was born. And in the past it was usually just sport.
But they have taken such a big role on this blog because they are afraid of the spread of Truth, that they offer a lot of opportunity to put some previously unformed rebuttals into meaningful words.
You will never find a post, on any of the dozens of blogs I’ve haunted in the past, where the trolls extol my virtues the way they do you. You are their best friend, becasue you make enemies of your only allies.
I hope my last post convinces you I want our Congress to protect us from these Bush nazis. But I’m not going to trash Harry or swear in public in doing so. And you are certainly not the inspiration. I do agree with your premise, I was predenting it long before your hair was even on fire.
I wrote way back in “99 that a Bush presidency would take us to war. I marched in Peace parades and joined anti-war movements BEFORE this war even started.
Where were you then? I was running around with my hair on fire before Bush was even selected by the SC. Are you just makiing up for lost time? Did you go out in public and protest this war BEFORE it started. A lot of us did. I’m sure Chertoff has some great photos of it in his files somewhere.
GO back to the start of this blog, it is not that old, and read what many of us have posted. We were all way ahead of you in demanding impeachment. We just didn’t use vile language and poison words to make our point.
Here’s something I wrote more than a month ago, November 17, concerning Bush’s impeachment.
“Time is short…Harry, you and the Dems need to accelerate this investigation, or we might all be facing an even deeper crisis than we realize.”
Sorry I didn’t use any swear words or make any accusations, but it still demands the same thing you now claim as your exclusive property, and pre-dates your involvement by a few weeks..
Do you homework;
Know your allies, fight your adversaries.
You have it the other way around.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 12:22 PM # - Valerie Plame and “Yellowcake” Wilson, heros. ROTFLMAO!!!!
Hey, why don’t you start quoting Mary Mapes too, while you’re at it?
In the meantime, I’ll quote Sen. Rockefeller in a July 17, 2003 handwritten letter to VP Cheney (link – http://wid.ap.org/documents/051219rockefeller.pdf):
“As you know, I am neither a technician nor an attorney. Given the security restrictions with this program, and my inability to consult staff or counsel of my own, I feel unable to fully evaluate, much less endorse, these activities.”
Is this guy a complete dullard? What does this clown do while he’s in Washington? Why the hell are we paying an elected official to not only sit on his fat ass, but the collective fat asses of his staff of people? Is it his only job to tell Bashar Assad about an invasion of Iraq even before the CIA sends “Yellowcake” Wilson to Niger? Maybe the Senator should do the work he was elected to do; be a damn member of the Senate. I mean, this idiot is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, for crying out loud.
As far as getting Reid to get the Phase II report out, I don’t think he needs to go any further than his own Jay Rockefeller to see how little work he does.
— Steve Dec 19, 12:22 PM # - Steve;
Tthere is not a CIA or FBI agent who respects you for trivializing the Wilson’s heroism. Or any soccer mom for that matter.
In your whole trivial lifetime you will never accomplish what either of them has done for American, and suggesting that their patriotisnm is some laughing matter only makes you look sophomoric, if not mentally challenged.
You can disagree with their findings, you can disagree with their politics, but you can not take away their heroic courage.
You’re an patriot gnat compared to Valerie Wilson.
Especially in terms of loyalty to your nation’s principles.
You surrender your own rights out of cowardly fear.
They spent years in dangerous covert situations and as Ambassadors in third-world countries, for the sake of this nation. Where were you all that time?
Who are you to challenge their patriotism, you’re nothing but a bushgoon with a keyboard and an internet connection, I doubt you have ever put your life on the line for even a moment, the way Valerie did every day of her career.
Your hero is George Bush.
Admit it.
Then lets weigh old George’s list of all the sacrifices he made for our country, against the Wilsons. There’s a scale I would really like to see weighed.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 12:35 PM # - “and my inability to consult staff or counsel of my own”
Do you understand what that means, Stevo? Bush required these people to keep his crime a secret. That is why Rockefeller expresses his concern in this lettrer. Thanks for sharing it with us, it only proves Bush bullied Congress into compliance, and now he’s threatening to go after the whistleblower(s) who revealed his crime.
And you equate that to outing a secret agent?
A concerned citizen sees his (or her) President committing a crime basic to our Constitution, and they blow the whislte on him. You think that is the same thing as outing a secret agent in such a way it could threaten her life?
This is one argument you trolls can’t win, so don’t try.
You trash Harry and Rocky for keeping the secret, then you trash the leaker for leaking it.
So which is it? Is Rockefeller a patriot for keeping Bush’s illegal secret, or is he a Patriot if he reveals the crime?
You trolls can’t decide which way to spin this one, you’re out of wiggle room, and every direction you turn, the truth resists your futile foresnsic dialogue.
Give it up.
BUSH BROKE THE LAW, and whoever leaked it is a hero.
And those who didn’t leak it were just obeying their President. So why are you trashing them about it?
You can’t win this one, your very argument is your own undoing.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 12:49 PM # - POA;
If you think you’re the only person on this blog who has demanded action from our leaders, particularly Harry, blablablahblah…..
— John Patterson
Save your narcisistic and self congratulatory bullshit for the trolls, will you? This isn’t about tooting our own horns, its about results. You make assumptions about me that are based on a knowledge of my history that you cannot possibly possess. If you want to act constructively here, then be forceful in imploring Reid to join Conyer’s efforts. Otherwise, just STFU and go feed the trolls.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 01:01 PM # - Spare me your transparent admiration of Plame and Wilson. Where’s the concern for the truly covert agents outed by bureaucrats and the NYT regarding CIA airlines and prisons, holding terrorists captured on the battlefield?
Plame may have been undercover or covert at some points in her career. But based on the history, she’d been a deskbound bureaucrat long after her supposed covert status ran out. And if she was such an expert in WMDs, why would Colin Powell say that the CIA never expressed their later concern that their intelligence on Saddam’s WMDs was faulty? Powell has the least to gain politically since he seems to have been pushed out of his job as Sec. of State, yet he still made his point clearly that the CIA was the problem. Larry Johnson’s idiotic 7/10/2001 NYT op-ed (which I linked to previously) proves that.
Wilson has been proven to be a liar since his own NYT op-ed. Whatever he did in the past, even if admirable, is tossed out the window.
— Steve Dec 19, 01:06 PM # - “So which is it? Is Rockefeller a patriot for keeping Bush’s illegal secret, or is he a Patriot if he reveals the crime?”
He’s simply a criminal abetting another criminal if he is aware of a crime and fails to report it. Stop making excuses for people based solely on their party afffiliations.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 01:07 PM # - And with all due respect to the Sibel Edmonds article, she wasn’t part of the FBI before 9/11 and was not an eyewitness to events there at the time.
Steve Dec 20, 02:36 AM
Alright, wise guy. Explain to me why the administration put the muzzle on Sibel Edmonds?
The gag order has been only used once before in the history of the FBI.
And trying to shoot down the credibility of Richard Clarke and Larry Johnson is pathetic. Whether or not what you say is true, these guys were actually doing things to try to catch the bad guys as opposed
to playing cowboy president.
You also said:
So, the fact that currently there is no direct evidence implicating Saddam with 9/11 (and I’m not implicating him here),
Enough said, there was no relationship between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. Easy to take a quote out of context, isn’t it? That’s child’s play. You’re pathetic.
— Horkus Dec 19, 01:19 PM # - POA;
Know your allies, fight your adversaries;
even on Conyer’s blog you always accuse Democrats of bein complicit when they don’t respond to your urgency.
This movement to impeach Bush is in a lot of different places, all over the blog, and your scattergun approach to blame should be replaced by a more intellectual marksmanship.
And your naive suppostition that now that you’re angry, all the rest of us are slugs, and you’re the quick bunny with all the answers..
As far as I can tell, you are a newcomer who thinks he’s in charge of the counter-culture against Bush. Look up the word narcissistic. Do some inner-searching and decide if it deosn’t better describe your Lone Patriot bs considerably better than my attempts at making logic out of confusion.
Your intent is honorable, but your execution only makes the Republicans think we are not united.
Which we are, Harry included, even if you don’t think so.
Do some homework. And read the whole post, carefully. Don’t just skim looking for paragraphs and sentences to rile against.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 01:40 PM # - Plame may have been undercover or covert at some points in her career. But based on the history, she’d been a deskbound bureaucrat long after her supposed covert status ran out.
Steve Dec 20, 02:06 PM
Steve, how do you know that? The CIA has not officially released anything about her. Does covert status run out like oven timer? I’ve read those theories in the right wing rags spoon fed to them by Rove. It’s all pathetic.
— Horkus Dec 19, 01:44 PM # - #171
I don’t know why the muzzle was put on Sibel Edmonds. I also said that she may have a valid case. I have no idea how she’ll get past the FBI gag order.
No, Clarke did believe there was a relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda, but not necessarily to the OBL/Al Qaeda 9/11 operation.
#167
”“and my inability to consult staff or counsel of my own”
Do you understand what that means, Stevo? Bush required these people to keep his crime a secret. That is why Rockefeller expresses his concern in this lettrer.”
Later:
“So which is it? Is Rockefeller a patriot for keeping Bush’s illegal secret, or is he a Patriot if he reveals the crime?”
No, it means he’s lazy. He is supposed to provide oversight. He has feet; he could walk or drive over and discuss this with the AG. He could use a phone and set up a meeting by himself without divulging what the meeting is about over the phone. He could possibly get all the appropriate paperwork together so that his staff would be able to handle classified information, so that he wouldn’t have to strain his brain too much.
— Steve Dec 19, 01:49 PM # - No, it means he’s lazy. He is supposed to provide oversight. He has feet; he could walk or drive over and discuss this with the AG. He could use a phone and set up a meeting by himself without divulging what the meeting is about over the phone. He could possibly get all the appropriate paperwork together so that his staff would be able to handle classified information, so that he wouldn’t have to strain his brain too much.
Steve Dec 20, 02:49 PM
Even more pathetic. We’re supposed to take your theories as fact? Were you in the meetings with Bush at the Whitehouse? Unf***ing believable.
— Horkus Dec 19, 02:04 PM # - “Plame may have been undercover or covert at some points in her career. But based on the history, she’d been a deskbound bureaucrat long after her supposed covert status ran out”
Who’s version of history are you referring to here?
Steve, have you read Scooter Libby’s indictment?
Plame’s job was classified at the time of the leak, it is a fact, not an opinion, you are either perpetuating a popular RNC lie or you are just poorly informed. You need to go the Blogs for Bush to post that crap, we all know better. Even the trolls who will defend you know better, lie or not.
Do you believe the stuff you write? Be honest, because you are either lying or you are wrong.
READ THE INDICTMENT!!! Then come back with your extensive expertise modified to include the truth.
The thing your republican anti-patriots should realy fear is that Cheney could be indicted and impeached for ordering Rove and Libby to get Wilson, even if they had to out his wife. Based on the very fact of her covert status.
Typical turdblossom logic; you compare a whistleblower telling the public that Bush broke the law to outing an agent for political gain. One was an act of courage, the other an act of cowardice.
But, like the Diebold machines that put Bush in office in the first place, you have transposed the courage into cowardice, and vice-versa.
Don’t just let that turn into another argument point, think about it carefully. Compare the two acts we are talking about.
One is the act of a patriot protecting our civil rights from the abuse of power, the other is a potentially deadly political ploy to denegrate someone who is telling the truth, and trying to protect us from a pattern of deception.
But, I’m game for a challenge.
How about we put two grand juries together, and give them the 50 million your heroes spent on Whitewater.
Let one of them delve into the Plame leak, without sand thrown in their eyes. Then let the other find out who the Bushcrime whistleblower was, why they did it, and get their story on the front pages so we know just how deep Bush’s secrets go?
Grand Juries all around, no more secrets no more lies.
Sound fair?
I didn’t think you would like that idea.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 02:08 PM # - Who said the following:
“The Department of Justice believes, and the case law supports, that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes, and that the President may, as has been done, delegate this authority to the Attorney General. It is important to understand that the rules and methodology for criminal searches are inconsistent with the collection of foreign intelligence and would unduly frustrate the president in carrying out his foreign intelligence responsibilities.”
— Steve Dec 19, 02:09 PM # - “Discuss it with the AG!!!!”
I’m still laughing. So is Bush.
Steve, you’re a riot.
Do you work for the DNC, just to keep us entertained?
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 02:11 PM # - Here’s an excerpt from Doug Ireland’s post today, from TomPaine.com and Alternet.com. Says it very succinctly. Good reporting.
“When the U.S. Senate last Friday refused to renew the liberticidal Patriot Act—with its provisions for spying on Americans’ use of libraries and the Internet, among other Constitution-shredding provisions of that iniquitous law—it was in part because that morning’s New York Times had revealed how Bush and his White House had committed a major crime.
By ordering the National Security Agency—the N.S.A, so secretive that in Washington its initials are said to stand for “No Such Agency”—to wiretap and eavesdrop on thousands of American citizens without a court order, Bush committed actions specifically forbidden by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Passed in 1978 after the Senate’s Church Committee documented in detail the Nixon administration’s widespread use of U.S. intelligence agencies to spy on the anti-Vietnam war movement and other political dissidents, FISA “expressly made it a crime for government officials ‘acting under color of law’ to engage in electronic eavesdropping ‘other than pursuant to statute.’”, as the director of the Center for National Security Studies, Kate Martin, told the Washington Post this past weekend.
And the FISA statute required authorization of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to make such domestic spying legal. Bush and his NSA sought no such authorization before invading American citizens’ right to privacy—a blatant flouting of the law that made both wavering Democrats and libertarian Republicans mad enough to vote against extending the hideous Patriot Act, which thankfully will now expire at the end of the year.
Bush not only acknowledged, and defended, this illegal eavesdropping in a Saturday radio address, he went further in a Monday morning press conference, saying he’d “suggested” it. But as Wisconsin Democratic Senator Russ Feingold—who, together with conservative Idaho Republican Larry Craig, led the filibuster that defeated the Patriot Act’s renewal—said this weekend, “This is not how our democratic system of government works—the president does not get to pick and choose which laws he wants to follow.”
There’s more to this story, both on TomPaine and in the days and weeks and months to come.
Go after em’ Harry, with every tool you have at your disposal. we need you and your colleagues to keep this story from fading into the conservative MSM bottomless pit.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 02:27 PM # - I didn’t know this was gonna turn into a quiz show.
Okay, who said this?
” Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren’t able to practice their love with women all across this country. ”
and this
” You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test. ”
and this
” They misunderestimated me. ”
Answers after these commercial breaks.
Steve, ducking the issues only makes you look like a fool.
— Horkus Dec 19, 02:30 PM # - Read this:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=510719
then tell me who the leaker is.
The law in question regarding outing covert CIA agents clearly states that the agent is no longer covert after 5 years being back in the US. As far as Libby is concerned, he is not charged with outing anybody. He is charged with perjury and obstruction of justice in what he knew about the outing, that’s it. You read the indictment.
And there is still no answer to my question about the concern for the covert agents that I mentioned earlier who were outed. Aren’t you concerned that their lives are endangered? Aren’t they just as patriotic as you claim Plame and Wilson are?
— Steve Dec 19, 02:30 PM # - This would all be over very quickly if a bi-partisan group of Senators and Congressmen were empanelled and allowed to see just who has been spied upon.
Does the list includes some of Bush’s political adversaries and their associates? Is someone like George Soros on that list, but not Achmad Chalabi?
Shades of Richard Nixon!
And Spiro T. Agnew!
JEP
And by the way, wasn’t it Dick Cheney who gave Achmad Chalabi the secret information about our nuclear programs that he shared with the Iranians?
Traitors in high places…
— John Patterson Dec 19, 02:33 PM # - Steve, ducking the issues only makes you look like a fool.
— Horkus
Not really. It just makes him a well fed troll, successful, (thanks to you and Patterson), at derailing and deflecting this thread.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 02:38 PM # - “Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires—a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.”
(George Bush, April, 2004, in a speech delivered in Kleinshans Music Hall in Buffalo NY.)
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 02:44 PM # - No one outed any agents by name in revealing Bush’s constitutional crimes. They just revealed that Bush was breaking the law.
Plame’s entire network of associates and connections was comprimised by Cheney’s vengeful act. How do you suppose those NSA eavesdroppers sitting in their cubicles down in Texas were threatened by the whistleblower?
Apples and cranberries, once again, the troll’s last defense: Cheney ordering Plame to be outed versus a whistleblower revealing high crimes and misdemenaors committed by our President.
And as for Cheney being the leaker in Chief, I think Bob Novak has finally pointed the right finger. Imagine, if you pushed W on who was the leaker, you’d have to figure he’s going to implicate Cheney, just by glancing over at him inadvertantly when the question gets asked.
Bush’s body language speaks volumes.
They may put in a dupe for a while, someone like Hadley, to take the fall for Cheney, but if I were making a guess, I would guess that it went something like this, in the limo on the way to White House that morning..;
“Scooter, I want you and Karl to get that %$#x%x boy scout Wilson, even if you have to out his %$#x%x CIA wife.”
Sounds like Cheney to me.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 02:50 PM # - POA, they’ve already ruined the thread by coming in with their lies. The biggest criticism against Kerry
during the swift boating phase of the campaign was that he didn’t defend himself. As long I’m commenting about the issues and not personal attacks, It’s all good in my book.
Yes, I know many of them are probably well paid trolls, but if you sit back and don’t call them on their
BS, they will continue to post misinformation on the thread. At the very least, it should be everyone’s responsiblity to correct misinformation.
You can call them on their BS, or you can take it between the eyes like Kerry did. Your perogative.
— Horkus Dec 19, 02:51 PM # - Post 183;
Me me me me me!!! Me, again!!!
Give us a break, Pissed, these trolls are great fodder for promoting our own logic, the best (or worst) I’ve seen. Breaking down these patentr asnd discredited arguments directly from the RNC gives us all some references for real discussion.
If you are here to trash Harry, go for it, it is what we expect. Make your point, but stop complaining about the rest of us, and at least READ some of the responses we write to these trolls, some of our elected officials use this blog for new vernacular and catchy phrases, all they get from you is a pissing contest. At least we present some arguments our lawmakers might use trying to satisfy your urgency.
Here’s what I told Harry in an earlier post:
“Go after em’ Harry, with every tool you have at your disposal. We need you and your colleagues to keep this story from fading into the conservative MSM bottomless pit.”
This may not be a vile enough version for you, why don’t you re-write it and post your version?
What are you really trying to say, Pissed? I don’t think you really know, you’re just so mad at Bush and Company, you can only vent and flail at everyone who won’t be hateful towards our only champions, whether you consider them your champions or not.
You’re like a kid sitting on the bench telling the team captain what a lousy job he’s doing, as he’s getting triple teamed by your opponents. And the coach knows better than to put you in the game because you commit a foul every time you go in.
More insigtht into your character that I shouldn’t know?
I’ll stop addressing you from now on, I’ve done it before to trolls whose arguments were pure poison. It is the first time in four years of blogging that I have chosen to do that to someone supposedly on my own side.
But we are wasting time on each other. And the trolls consider you their kindred spirit, whenever you trash me or another supporter of Harry Reid and his fellow Democrats.
Farewell, POA, and I hope someday you find the time and the sincerity to go back and read some of the posts that the rest of us have offered. We are your allies, you are just too blinded by your own anger to see it.
JEP
PS The “trifecta” you allude to on Conyer’s blog is worth more of our time, why don’t you give us some potential scenarios? I agree with you wholeheartedly, I posted the same warning on this blog back in November. But I didn’t have to swear in order to do it.
— John Patterson Dec 19, 03:16 PM # - “Yes, I know many of them are probably well paid trolls, but if you sit back and don’t call them on their BS, they will continue to post misinformation on the thread.”
ROFLMAO!!!!!!! Just what in God’s name do you think they are doing when they RESPOND to you??? Gads.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 03:17 PM # - Only one question to the Senate majority leader: How do we get to impeachment?
— janinsanfran Dec 19, 03:28 PM # - Pissed, this blog is for anybody to comment. If you want to make a blog with your own rules, then start one. This is Harry Reid’s blog.
You disagree with our philosophy, that’s OK. Don’t tell others what to do. That’s called fascism.
I have no beef with you. Goodbye.
— Horkus Dec 19, 03:32 PM # - If anyone cares to honestly look at Pattersons’s tactics and agenda here, you can learn much about which commentts he chooses to respond to, and which comments he ignores. Read the thread carefully, and use your noggin. Heres one of the comments he IGNORED….
#155…..
The blogs are ablaze with debate over Bush’s illegal spying on american citizens. But not this one. Instead, what do we get from Reid? A mincing and embarrassing endorsement of Bush’s “candor” about Iraq. Never mind that in his speech Monkey Boy misled us about Iraqi troop strength, (again), saying that more than 126 Iraqi battalions were now engaged in “fighting the enemy” and “more than 50 are taking the lead”. But “taking the lead” in military jargon actually means that they are “in charge”, but unable to conduct operations without our transition teams and our material support. How many Iraq battalions are ACTUALLY CAPABLE of conducting operations independent of our support (“Level 1” capability)???? ONE. Uno. How many men is that??? 600. Funny Reid doesn’t point that out in his “appreciative” essay on Bush’s new “candor”.
Bush also cited a recent poll that was sponsored jointly by ABC News, Time Magazine, and other news organizations. He quoted almost verbatim, stating that “Seven in ten Iraqis say their lives are going well, and nearly two thirds expect things to improve even more in the year ahead”. But golly, he failed to note that the same poll found that not even half of the Iraqis polled, 46%, said their country was better off than it was under Saddam. 50% said it was WRONG for for the United States to attack Iraq. And TWO THIIRDS said they OPPOSED THE CONTINUED PRESENCE OF U.S. TROOPS.
Does Reid cite Bush’s misleading selection of the poll’s findings? Nope. I guess in Reid’s mind Bush’s misrepresentations and over-optimistic political bullshit constitutes a “new openess”. But not in Anthony H. Cordesman’s mind, a sholar at the Center for Startegic and International Studies who has generally been supportive of Bush’s strategy in Iraq….
“HE’S CHERRY PICKED NUMBERS AND I THINK ROUNDED THEM UP….(he’s) IGNORED ALL THE NEGATIVES”.
Well, apparently, so has Reid.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 03:32 PM # - Only one question to the Senate majority leader: How do we get to impeachment?
janinsanfran Dec 20, 04:28 PM
Jan, only the House can bring articles of impeachment. John Conyers is pushing for one. As long as the republicans control the house, there will be no impeachment. If the republicans want to gamble and defend GW, it’ll be their necks in 2006 if the public disapproves, and the articles of impeachment will begin.
— Horkus Dec 19, 03:44 PM # - Some gems from John:
“No one outed any agents by name in revealing Bush’s constitutional crimes. They just revealed that Bush was breaking the law.”
Whew. I’m so glad you know this definitively. I feel better now.
“I don’t suggest for a moment that there could be no more terrorist attacks. But like 9-11 and Oklahoma City, it will take more than isolated incedents, no matter how horrendous, to bring us to the breaking point. All of you who use this argument are just taking the WH talking points to the extreme.”
Liberals love asking conservatives how many of our “children” we are willing to sacrifice by letting them serve in the military and fight terrorists in a foreign land. Oklahoma City was truly an isolated incident. But 9/11 certainly wasn’t as John ignores Khobar Towers, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the USS Cole. How many of your children are you willing to sacrifice for this misguided belief? How many of mine? How many of everybody elses? 300 dead and 5500 wounded before 9/11 didn’t convince Clinton we were in a shooting war. 3000 dead not enough? How about 3,000,000? Would that convince you we’re in a real war? Terrorists don’t need a million man army to kill this many. It only took 19 to kill 3000, and they didn’t have nukes or dirty bombs.
But go ahead and keep to your delusions.
— Steve Dec 19, 03:51 PM # - PLEASE NOTE;
On Conyer’s statement it lists the address..
www.censurebush. com
IT SHOULD READ;
www.censurebush. org
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 03:59 PM # - Senator Reid,
It is about time to stand up like the real “Give I’m Hell Harry” stood up to General MacArthur.
Listen to the cry of the people in your party that is yelling for impeachment and investigations.
Tell President Bush that “the buck stops here” at the White House and he must take responsibility for his actions.
Take lead of the Democratic Party and start supporting the efforts of John Conyers, let the whole country know that we are not going to put up with the Bush administration any longer.
YELL LIKE HELL…MAKE ALL THE NOISE POSSIBLE, LET THE COUTNRY KNOW THAT WE AREN’T AFRAID OF BUSH’S HINCHMEN.
— John Dec 19, 04:01 PM # - #144 Patterson: Either way, he should be impeached, the same people who are now protecting this administration would have screamed bloody murder if Clinton had done any of this. I wonder if Clinton had authorized illegal wiretaps on neonazis, what you repub trolls would have done to him?
I guess you, as a bleeding heart partisan, never heard of Project Echelon and how the Clinton’s used it to spy on their personal enemies. What is happening to Americans who forget who they are and become corrupt, criminal, immoral lying Democrats?
— joro Dec 19, 04:05 PM # - “As long as the republicans control the house, there will be no impeachment.”
Which is why hang my hat on the Democrat’s tree, they are the only alternative. And they may not have the power to offer that alternative unless we are willing to work hard to help them win offices at every level.
Get involved, locally, with your Democratic Party, and the “trickle-up” effect will start bringing more support to the upper echelons, the ones who might just be able to boost Cheney and Bush (preferably in that order) for their high crimes and misdemeanors.
For their felony wiretaps.
Anyone who holds the Democrats in the same low esteem as they do the Republicans is acting with total futility. Pick a side and live with it, don’t get lost in some marginal party and splinter ideology that has a nice, narrow platform you can be cozy with, but no political power. There is no times for factions within the ranks of dissent, there must be a unified voice.
Also, we need to keep houndng the media and the blogs so this felony wiretap story doesn’t get lost in the spin rooms.
Write you local papers, and submit editorials and letters to the editor, we need to deluge the press with our opinion that Bush needs to be bosted from office.
Email CNN, MSNBC, NPR, Air America, (anyone but Fox or ClearChannel) and tell them they need to keep this story alive. Threaten boycotts of papers and TV stations that refuse to tell the truth. It has workde before, quite effectively.
And we need to strongly encourage our elected officials, Democrats AND Republicans, to take part in demanding answers to our important questions and not dodging the truth just to save face.
It is time for an historic reckoning in this nation. We must take our country back, one local office at a time.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 04:10 PM # - #159. (BTW, be sure to feed a troll while you are here, it seems to have become the purpose of this blog.)
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 12:35 PM #
Boy, you sure got that right. Seems there are mostly hatefilled, partisan, neolibs instead of Americans posting here.
— joro Dec 19, 04:17 PM # - Let’s see you really give them HELL HARRY!Support John Conyers efforts Mr. Reid!
Expose PNAC’s folly!
Impeach Bush and Cheney NOW!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 04:18 PM # - “And we need to strongly encourage our elected officials, Democrats AND Republicans, to take part in demanding answers to our important questions and not dodging the truth just to save face.”
Great idea John. When do you intend to get started?
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 04:20 PM # - #160 Patterson. If you have the courage to speak the truth, then give us the $ figures for Bush’s deficit versus Clinton’s surplus.
Clinton never had a surplus. Clinton added $1.6 trillion to the national debt with red ink each and every one of his miserable years. Clinton left Bush with a $6 trillion national debt that is costing Bush almost a half a trillion a year in debt service (interest.) That sea of Clinton red ink was after the Clinton/Gore tax increase in 1993, the largest tax increase in our history and during a time of peace brought about by President Reagan. I wish Democrats would stop lying about things that are so easily provable. If Harry Reid had an honest bone in his body, he would call on all Democrats to start telling the truth.
— joro Dec 19, 04:24 PM # - #160 Patterson: The Republicans are no longer the party of fiscal conservatives and small government. Since that was at one time their very identity, then what do we call them now that their old label doesn’t fit?
Of course Republicans are fiscal conservatives. For the FY ending in September of 2005, they knocked down $3.7 trillion of spending bills proposed by the Tax and Spend Democrats. Look at the Budget Reconciliation Bill passed yesterday by the House. Every Democrat voted against it and the Senate, led by Chief Obstructionist Harry Reid, will probably filibuster those cuts too!
— joro Dec 19, 04:31 PM # - As of five minutes ago, if one uses “conyers” and “impeachment” as keywords to conduct a Google advanced news search, one only receives two hits announcing Conyers efforts. (The Nation and OpEdNews)
Conyers has forced the issue here, and we are about to find out who the media lackeys are, and which politicians, both left and right, are willing to stand in defense of our democracy. But it will ALL depend on the active participation of CITIZENS if we truly expect Conyers efforts to bear fruit. DO NOT ALLOW this issue to fade, or be buried in the partisan distraction of the background noise of right wing deflection and “left wing” duplicity in that distraction, such as we see on this blog. IGNORE the trolls and keep your eye on the ball. DEMAND that your representatives support Conyer’s efforts, and let your media know that we are paying attention with phone calls, letters, emails, and the cancelling of subscriptions. This may very well be the ONLY shot we get at this, so we damned well better make it good.
And John. Go screw yourself. Get busy, or get out of the way.
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 04:34 PM # - #161 At least Nixon had the dignity to resign.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:56 PM #
Too bad Clinton and Reid lack that dignity. America and Nevada continue in shame because of them.
— joro Dec 19, 04:35 PM # - Why is it that every time Joro get on , I ‘m about to sign off?
“To thine own self be true.”
From “Hamlet.”
I have no problems with that, Joro, and I know you probably don’t either, But you are wrong and I am right and never the twain shall meet. No doubt, it will all come out in “The Wash.” The big one.
As for Stevo,
“But 9/11 certainly wasn’t as John ignores Khobar Towers, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the USS Cole. How many of your children are you willing to sacrifice for this misguided belief? How many of mine? How many of everybody elses? 300 dead and 5500 wounded before 9/11 didn’t convince Clinton we were in a shooting war.”
Maybe the partisan impeachment you neocon pawns so rabidly supported kept our President and our government distracted?
Or was this just one more tool of the neocons to make sure “THE EVENT” (which finally took the form of 9-11) in any form, would be sure to happen, so the neocons could have their Holy War for OIL.
Did the Republican Party and Newt’s orks keep the US Govenment and the executive branch busy while all the pieces of the 9-11 fell into place?
DUH!
And, as for us being involved in in some kind of “global war,” (Billy Mitchell would laugh at all of you), as long as people like you are willing to recognize these small, disconnected bands of renegades and rogues as a worthy adversary, instead of the hoodlums and Arab gangbangers they really are, we will never put this into the proper persepctive.
The closest thing they have to an actual army was created when we attacked Iraq and gave them some of our own children to focus their anger against.
Not only do you make heores out of these thugs and their icons, you want the rest of your silly, frightened rabble to believe there is some massive, impending threat waiting over the next horizon. You aren’t even willing to go after them when the opportunity avails itself, you turned your attentions to Iraq and accumulating more of the world’s oil wealth, as Bin laden ( the Saudi) and his (Saudi) hijackers rode off into the Pakistani sunset.
What a bunch of misguided misanthropes.
As for putting numbers on dead babies, the primary reason I take a public stand against this administration is to protect my own children from a neocon military draft.
Are you willing to surrender your sons and daughters to fight in another Bush war?
or, to quote Steve, “how many of you are willing to give up your children for this misguided belief?”
Signing off. See you in the morning.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 04:43 PM # - Why all this talk of impeachment when there is a Senator from Nevada filibustering the Patriot Act? What will happen to the Senator when the Patriot Act is dead, Gorelicks (what a name) wall goes back up, intelligence gathering stops and the terrorists complete another large scale attack in our country? Will Harry try to blame that on our President?
It is high time the neolibs start thinking in realistic terms and take actions against the wrong thinking neolib politikos.
— Kee Dec 19, 04:44 PM # - Had to get back on just for this one;
“Clinton left Bush with a $6 trillion national debt that is costing Bush almost a half a trillion a year in debt service (interest.) ”
Turdblossom wrote this a few months ago, it is still funny.
We all now better, but say it often and loud enough and you might believe it yourself.
B’bye…
— John Patterson Dec 19, 04:46 PM # - BRAVO John Conyers! It is time to ignore the trolls and present the facts before the people and let them decide.
www.conyersblog.com
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 04:47 PM # - #170 POA “So which is it? Is Rockefeller a patriot for keeping Bush’s illegal secret, or is he a Patriot if he reveals the crime?”
He’s simply a criminal abetting another criminal if he is aware of a crime and fails to report it. Stop making excuses for people based solely on their party afffiliations.
Dec 20, 02:07 PM #
There was no crime comitted by Bush. The only crime is that a leaker of top secret infomation leaked to the New York Times DNC controlled liberal rag. That leak placed American lives at risk. Harry Reid should be exposing who in his party did that dastardly deed and remove him from the Senate immediately as a traitor. Reid did not do his job when Leaky Leahy blabbed top secret data nor did he expel Diane Feinstein when she left a top secret briefing and blabbed on the steps as soon as she got outside. Could Reid not be acting because he is the leaker?
— joro Dec 19, 04:54 PM # - Just one last volley back at ya, Pissed.
For the sake of our entire blogging fellowship, read your own post 203, then go BACK a few posts to 197.
Here’s my post,
“Write your local papers, and submit editorials and letters to the editor, we need to deluge the press with our opinion that Bush needs to be bosted from office.
Email CNN, MSNBC, NPR, Air America, (anyone but Fox or ClearChannel) and tell them they need to keep this story alive. Threaten boycotts of papers and TV stations that refuse to tell the truth. It has workde before, quite effectively.
And we need to strongly encourage our elected officials, Democrats AND Republicans, to take part in demanding answers to our important questions and not dodging the truth just to save face.
It is time for an historic reckoning in this nation. We must take our country back, one local office at a time.
JEP”
Here’s your post, minus the insults;
Conyers has forced the issue here, and we are about to find out who the media lackeys are, and which politicians, both left and right, are willing to stand in defense of our democracy. But it will ALL depend on the active participation of CITIZENS if we truly expect Conyers efforts to bear fruit. DO NOT ALLOW this issue to fade, or be buried in the partisan distraction of the background noise of right wing deflection and “left wing” duplicity in that distraction, such as we see on this blog. IGNORE the trolls and keep your eye on the ball. DEMAND that your representatives support Conyer’s efforts, and let your media know that we are paying attention with phone calls, letters, emails, and the cancelling of subscriptions. This may very well be the ONLY shot we get at this, so we damned well better make it good.
By Golly, Pissed, looks like we actually agree. Mostly.
Did you ever take the time to find the post I made at Conyer’s blog, back in June, I think, suggesting he form an impeachment committee with the people he had in the basement meeting??
Do your homework.
I’ve been busy at this much longer that you have.
Peace, Justice and Love;
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:05 PM # - #187 Patterson: Farewell, POA, and I hope someday you find the time and the sincerity to go back and read some of the posts that the rest of us have offered. We are your allies, you are just too blinded by your own anger to see it.
JEP
John, ever look in a mirror?
— joro Dec 19, 05:10 PM # - For those of you who hate Americans torturing enemy combatants, please view this video. It shows what the enemy does to American prisoners.This was Ronald Schulz fate.
Caution not for the weak at heart.
http://www.hyscience.com/video/FLURL-dot-com-21896-ronald.mpg
— the gop won get over it Dec 19, 05:11 PM # - http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Closer_look_at_Pentagon_logs_finds_1205.html
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 05:13 PM # - #189. Only one question to the Senate majority leader: How do we get to impeachment?
— janinsanfran Dec 20, 04:28 PM #
The first necessity is that a crime must be comitted. For example, when Clinton lied while under oath which is a felony. Treason is another crime calling for impeachment. Harry Reid is not doing the job he was elected to do. People like Coward Kerry and Turban Durbin are still in OUR Senate.
— joro Dec 19, 05:16 PM # - Thank you senator Reid.
#212, are you saying it’s ok to stoop to their level then?
Bush and Cheney are criminals, lock them away!
— Carol Dec 19, 05:22 PM # - 211;
Not very often, I’m really not very concerned about how I look to people, to be quite honest. I’m just a fuzzy old hippy with a grey beard and long hair, and I’m not chasing any nubile young native women around any more, my wife would shoot me. So would my granddaughter.
Kind of blows that narcissism thing away.
As for your suggestion that there was no crime committed by Bush, you are flat wrong, BUT IF YOU SAY IT LOUD ENOUGH AND LONG ENOUGH YOU MAY BELIEVE IT YOURSELF. Although I think you probably know Bush stepped well beyond his legal authority.
Be honest, Joro, you’re a lawyer, what you really mean is “I am so in love with King W that he can do anything he wants and I will defend him no matter what crimes he commits.” Kee probably feels the same way.
Just repeating that new BushCult mantra (Bush committed no crime) won’t change one simple truth.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
And, finally,
BUSH COMMITTED A FELONY.
High crimes and misdemeanors include felonies.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:26 PM # - The Echelon Myth
Prominent right-wing bloggers – including Michelle Malkin, the Corner, Wizbang and Free Republic — are pushing the argument that President Bush’s warrantless domestic spying program isn’t news because the Clinton administration did the same thing.
The right-wing outlet NewsMax sums up the basic argument:
During the 1990’s under President Clinton, the National Security Agency monitored millions of private phone calls placed by U.S. citizens and citizens of other countries under a super secret program code-named Echelon…all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.
That’s flatly false. The Clinton administration program, code-named Echelon, complied with FISA. Before any conversations of U.S. persons were targeted, a FISA warrant was obtained. CIA director George Tenet testified to this before Congress on 4/12/00:
“I’m here today to discuss specific issues about and allegations regarding Signals Intelligence activities and the so-called Echelon Program of the National Security Agency…
There is a rigorous regime of checks and balances which we, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency and the FBI scrupulously adhere to whenever conversations of U.S. persons are involved, whether directly or indirectly. We do not collect against U.S. persons unless they are agents of a foreign power as that term is defined in the law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department.”
Meanwhile, the position of the Bush administration is that they can bypass the FISA court and every other court, even when they are monitoring the communications of U.S. persons. It is the difference between following the law and breaking it.
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/the-echelon-myth/
— Pissed Off American Dec 19, 05:26 PM # - Harry;
Get together with Conyers on this one, and get your fellows Democrats to take a courageous stand. POA’s right, this is the ultimate litmus test for Democrats, and a chance at public redemption, especially for those who voted for the war and the un-patriot act.
You are their leader and they are our leaders.
The more you talk about impeachment, the more “The People” (and the press) will love you all.
If you thought the public watched intently as Clinton got dragged through the mud, imagine the TV ratings if Bush is dragged through the truth?
The media will eat it up, grateful for the revenge you offer them, in retribution for being used as pawns in the run-up to war.
A call for Impeachment may just be the biggest asset Democrats have in 06.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:39 PM # - DEMOCRATS ENJOY HAVING EGG ON THEIR FACE.
Geez, they are at it again with impeachment. In just the last 14 months, the Dan Blather laugher, Coward Kerry’s self inflicted wounds (still haven’t seen his military medical records he promised on Russert’s show) Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, George Soros, papers stuffed into undershorts by Sandy Burglar, Murtha’s surrender, cut and run, the ban on Christmas including union teachers banning kids from wearing red or green, top secret leaks, killed the Patriot Act—-oh, you get the idea, this could go on forever. If it wasn’t such a sad disaster, it would be funny.
— joro Dec 19, 05:40 PM # - Impeachment;
Here’s a good way to frame it, for all the Democrats wondering how to transition to an Impeachment Economy.
A not too future neswpaper story;
When asked if he/she supported the public outcry for a Bush impeachment, the candidate stated,
“The only way we can ever get to the bottom of this is to have Impeachment proceedings. Whether Bush is removed from office or not, at least we will know the truth. And for that reason, I think it is in the best interests of our nation to proceed with impeachment. If Bush is innocent, he has nothing to fear.”
Actually signing off this time.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:46 PM # - #217 POA. Meanwhile, the position of the Bush administration is that they can bypass the FISA court and every other court, even when they are monitoring the communications of U.S. persons. It is the difference between following the law and breaking it.
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/the-echelon-myth/
I can understand why Bush would not go to a court for approval in an emergency to save American lives. Many of the judges were appointed by Clinton and cannot be trusted. Seriously, would any sane person trust any Democrat?
— joro Dec 19, 05:47 PM # - joro still pushing that (ignore the real issue and blame a democrat) routine? And then it’s Clinton, Clinton, Clinton! What a maroon!
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 05:53 PM # - Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, George Soros…
These are some great Americans. Patriots all, in the traditional sense..
Using them in a negative aspect on this blog is troll self-flagellation.
But you may have given us the starting list of who all was spied-on by Bush’s minions. Right along with all those Quaker grandmothers.
Does anyone doubt these three people have been spied on over the past few years? Maybe there’s an honest agent out there who’s willing to come clean and tell us who some of Bush’s felony victims are.
How about Harry, and John Conyers? Were they spied on? Bill and Hillary, maybe? Shumer and Levin? Feingold and Boxer (08)?
We need to know the truth.
And only an impeachment will give us that truth. A simple inquiry would only become a cover-up.
JEP
IMPEACH BUSH FOR HIS FELONY!!! If he is truly innocent, he has nothing to fear.
— John Patterson Dec 19, 05:57 PM # - REID/ABRAMOFF CONNECTION
My liberal LVRJ newspaper this morning talks about Republicans and Abramoff. Way down, buried on the last paragraphs of the last pages, they mention Reid got $60,000. (Earlier reports said $66,000.) Reid’s spokesperson said Reid will not return the money as the Republicans have. Apparently Reid must feel he earned the money for services rendered. The paper never mentioned that Shelley Berkley, the Democrat Representative, received money from Abramoff nor what she will do with her contributions. Is it any wonder that the polls show media credibility to be at rock bottom?
— joro Dec 19, 05:58 PM # - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lieofthecentury.html
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 06:01 PM # - “I can understand why Bush would not go to a court for approval in an emergency”
Joro, post 221
by their own words we shall judge them…
Like I said, “We love King W so much, he can break the law any time he wants to and we will defend him.”
Blind followers, cult members, ignorant pawns…
King W is apparently above the law, in the eyes of his subjects.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 06:02 PM # - #223. America and Americans fought Communism for a long time with many brave American youths spilling their blood and guts on foreign soil. Patterson, do you consider Communism something worth fighting against or were all of the lives sacrificed by our soldiers wasted?
— joro Dec 19, 06:04 PM # - TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRATS
House Vote
Budget Reconciliation, 2006
Republicans 212 Yea 9 Nay
Democrats 196 Nay
Independent 1 Nay
— joro Dec 19, 06:10 PM # - Had to get back on just for this one;
“Clinton left Bush with a $6 trillion national debt that is costing Bush almost a half a trillion a year in debt service (interest.) ”
Turdblossom wrote this a few months ago, it is still funny.
We all now better, but say it often and loud enough and you might believe it yourself.
B’bye…
— John Patterson Dec 20, 05:46 PM #
Face facts, JP, you “get off” with your computer and your feeble attempts to act superior to “trolls”, those of us who really understand what is happening.
— Kee Dec 19, 06:10 PM # - Bill, POST 225, that’s the most concise and accurate website I’ve seen on the subject, I had to take this and post it here just so everyone will understand what I mean by BUSH IS A FELON!!! (I added one parenthetical phraze, its easy to spot)
Everyone who reads this blog needs to check out this reference from post 225, it is a doozy. You trolls should avoid it, you will get ill.
U.S.C. TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 47 § 1001.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section,
WHOEVER, (even King W)
in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by ANY trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or USES any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
....shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”
impeach cheney and bush…
IMPEACH CHENEY AND BUSH!
I M P E A C H C H E N E Y A N D B U S H!!!!
— John Patterson Dec 19, 06:12 PM # - Impeachment;
#220….Here’s a good way to frame it, for all the Democrats wondering how to transition to an Impeachment Economy.
A not too future neswpaper story;
When asked if he/she supported the public outcry for a Bush impeachment, the candidate stated,
“The only way we can ever get to the bottom of this is to have Impeachment proceedings. Whether Bush is removed from office or not, at least we will know the truth. And for that reason, I think it is in the best interests of our nation to proceed with impeachment. If Bush is innocent, he has nothing to fear.”
Actually signing off this time.
JEP
How many times will “John Patterson” sign off? How many people are posting using that name? Could any one person really be that dumb?
— Kee Dec 19, 06:15 PM # - REID ANTI-JUSTICE
Harry Reid voted against splitting the overworked 9th Circuit Court that is the largest in our nation covering a huge territory. JUSTICE DELAYED IS JUSTICE DENIED. Harry seems to have gone off the deep end with his anti-American positions. This is almost as bad as his killing the Patriot Act.
RECALL REID.
— joro Dec 19, 06:16 PM # - I think that “John Patterson” is a recording
— Kee Dec 19, 06:17 PM # - Chernobyl ended the cold war. Not Ronald Reagan
And the Republicans won’t get over it.
Any history experts out there with a timeline of the collapse of the Soviet Union? Was it a rousing Reagan speech that drove the Russians into the streets to protest the Soviet bloc? Not hardly.
Chernobyl, and the Soviet cover-up of it, brought about that cataclysmic change. But you repubs all want to credit Ronnie for it.
Go right ahead, hold onto your delusions, your dead heroes are the only icons you have left to imageine nobility in. The live ones are scurrying around like rats in the sewer, so you’d best hold onto your fantasies about Reagan while you have them, the future does not promise much glory for you to imagine in years to come..
I think Pope John Paul can take some credit, too. But this Reagan hero worship is one of the Republicans most transparent delusions.
Totalitarianism, in any form, is the adversary of free people everywhere.
You WalMarteers just think your new totalitarians are capitalists, which they aren’t, they are monopolists. If they weren’t we’d be driving electric cars and wearing hemp clothing. And Main Street USA wouldn’t be a ghost town.
And Canada would still be our friend.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 06:26 PM # - Yup, John Patterson is definitely a recording!
— Kee Dec 19, 06:32 PM # - Kee;
Actually, I have a music CD for sale. All original.
I’ll post some lyrics later. You trolls will hate them, no doubt.
And no, there’s only one of me, I just keep reading posts as I’m signing off that I want to address.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 06:34 PM # - http://www.opinionjournal.com/edito…ml?id=110007703
Thank You for Wiretapping
Why the Founders made presidents dominant on national security.
Excerpt:
The allegation of Presidential law-breaking rests solely on the fact that Mr. Bush authorized wiretaps without first getting the approval of the court established under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978. But no Administration then or since has ever conceded that that Act trumped a President’s power to make exceptions to FISA if national security required it. FISA established a process by which certain wiretaps in the context of the Cold War could be approved, not a limit on what wiretaps could ever be allowed.
The courts have been explicit on this point, most recently in In Re: Sealed Case, the 2002 opinion by the special panel of appellate judges established to hear FISA appeals. In its per curiam opinion, the court noted that in a previous FISA case (U.S. v. Truong), a federal “court, as did all the other courts to have decided the issue [our emphasis], held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information.” And further that “we take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.”
SNIP
— Porcius Dec 19, 07:14 PM # - Interesting theory about Chernobyl. I think it is more likely that the nutcracker got broken again and Marie, bereft of her Prince, had to take a job in the German Olympic brothel.
— Walter E. Wallis Dec 19, 07:14 PM # - The Mighty Redwood,
by John Patterson
Chorus;
I am the mighty redwood, two thousand years I’ve grown,
In this secret ancient grove, where mankind has never gone,
v1.I was born the day that Jesus Christ was put to death,
my first sprout reached upward, as He took His resurrected breath,
And as He rose to heaven, I was reaching for the sky,
I’ve been growing ever since, watching as the world goes by.
v2.I am the tallest redwood, over 400 feet tall,
I’ve been growing ever since, the Roman Empire’s rise and fall,
I’ve seen the nations come and go, their flags in turn unfurled.
Now the land where I was born, dominates this whole embattled world.
v3.I saw the Western World unfold, from the first Spanish ships,
I stood and watched as Lewis and Clark, took their fateful river trip.
I felt this nation tear itself apart in civil war,
Of all the horror that I’ve seen, surely this was the worst by far.
v4.I’ve seen the work that mankind does, both noble and profane,
Most of them are innocent, just living out their lives in vain.
But in the last few decades the worst men have begun,
To rule their fellows crudely, with land mines, rockets bombs and guns.
v5.Their wars are raging round the world, as they destroy the land,
No mortal intervention now will shake them from their wicked plans,
I can hear them coming, little men with might saws,
and their black-smoke belchin’ half tracks, armed with racks and plows and
iron jaws.
v6.I watched the world unfolding, adding rings each year,
Hidden in this secret place, as nations rose and disappeared.
Now greedy men with bottom lines don’t care what age I spanned,
They’ll cut me down and ship me off to sell as lumber in some distant land.
I am the mighty Redwood, two thousand years I’ve grown,
In this secret ancient grove, where mankind has never gone.
Revelations 11:18, (the last sentence…)
Good night, and God Bless.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 07:23 PM # - #229 Kee. B’bye…
— John Patterson Dec 20, 05:46 PM #
Face facts, JP, you “get off” with your computer and your feeble attempts to act superior to “trolls”, those of us who really understand what is happening.
— Kee Dec 20, 07:10 PM #
Patterson is a typical Democrat. Full of promises but they never deliver. Reid got help getting elected by promising improvements to Lake Mead Blvd. from Boulder Highway.
— joro Dec 19, 07:40 PM # - #144 Patterson. Clarke hasNEVER been discredited, nor has Joe Wilson, except in yours and Karls Rove’s spin rooms. And on Fox News.
Read the 911 Commission Report. We wasted a lot of tax dollars on it since the wannabe neolibs trolls refuse to believe what is in it. You even learn that Clinton/Reno had Jamie Gorelick build a wall so that our intelligence agencies could not talk to each other. Therein lies the cause of 911.
— joro Dec 19, 07:47 PM # - #207 Patterson: Had to get back on just for this one;
“Clinton left Bush with a $6 trillion national debt that is costing Bush almost a half a trillion a year in debt service (interest.) ”
Turdblossom wrote this a few months ago, it is still funny.
We all now better, but say it often and loud enough and you might believe it yourself.
B’bye…
— John Patterson Dec 20, 05:46 PM #
The Debt to the Penny:
09/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
John, you are in deep, deep denial. Bask in the darkness of ignorance.
— joro Dec 19, 07:53 PM # - #231 How many times will “John Patterson” sign off? How many people are posting using that name? Could any one person really be that dumb?
— Kee Dec 20, 07:15 PM #
Somebody said he is like a broken record. Keeps repeating,using a “know it all attitude”, the sameold DNC lies over and over and over and over and over and, well you get the idea. POA identified him correctly. It is almost as bad as Harry Reid with his whiny filibusters on every Bill good for America.
— joro Dec 19, 08:04 PM # - #235: Yup, John Patterson is definitely a recording!
— Kee Dec 20, 07:32 PM #
Does the DNC have a rewritten history book? We know they are rewriting Clinton’s history and legacy, all to non avail because his crimes and corruption are recorded in stone but Patterson is going back revising Reagans history. The neolibs must be getting very desperate as their party crumbles with their lies and obstructionism.
— joro Dec 19, 08:15 PM # - For years, George W. Bush and his corrupt party have imposed their illegitimate rule through lawlessness, false patriotism, and boundless deceit. They have raped the truth and left it lying in a ditch. They have torn the Constitution to shreds and scattered it to the four winds. They praise God while blaspheming his teachings. They invoke freedom as they crush the life out of it. The praise our troops while betraying them. They wage illegal war and call it liberation. They subvert elections and call it a mandate.
They sanctify the unborn, the brain-dead, and the wealthy, and demonize everyone else.
They are an abomination to democracy, Christianity, and justice. We cannot rest until we redeem this country and restore the freedom, honor and dignity the Founding Fathers bequeathed to us so long ago, and trusted us to defend.
— Rusty Dec 19, 08:18 PM # - I have a great idea; I tried it out, and ir worked just fine, so I am recommending it to everyone who likes a little common sense and no vitriol. Memorize these names; they may belong to a half a dozen people, or only one hireling, but who cares?
KEE; JORO; STEVE; PORCIUS; KERRY LOST; THE GOP WON ETC.
Then on each post, BEFORE you read it, scroll down to the end. If it is one of those, just go to the next post, scroll down to the end; if it is one of those, . . . etc. If it’s not, slide back up to the top and read it; the poster may have something constructive to say. If you never READ what the trolls have to say, you won’t waste your time replying. If they get no feedback to butter their overblown egos, maybe they’ll go away and leave the thread to those of us who have something constructive to say.
Capisce?
— koryannder Dec 19, 08:18 PM # - Koryannder, that’s a familiar name.
— Rusty Dec 19, 08:20 PM # - #237 Porcius.
More egg on the Demmies faces. When will they learn that they are dealing with the most moral, honest, credible administration in our history?
— joro Dec 19, 08:20 PM # - #246:I have a great idea; I tried it out, and ir worked just fine, so I am recommending it to everyone who likes a little common sense and no vitriol. Memorize these names; they may belong to a half a dozen people, or only one hireling, but who cares?
KEE; JORO; STEVE; PORCIUS; KERRY LOST; THE GOP WON ETC.
Then on each post, BEFORE you read it, scroll down to the end. If it is one of those, just go to the next post, scroll down to the end; if it is one of those, . . . etc. If it’s not, slide back up to the top and read it; the poster may have something constructive to say. If you never READ what the trolls have to say, you won’t waste your time replying. If they get no feedback to butter their overblown egos, maybe they’ll go away and leave the thread to those of us who have something constructive to say.
Capisce?
— koryannder Dec 20, 09:18 PM #
Your idea is overused by Demmies. They never want to hear the truth, just DNC lies.
— joro Dec 19, 08:29 PM # - Time for the truth;
I have absolutely no connection with the DNC, I’ve never been paid for blogging, and I have never taken a single line from any DNC website or letter.
Whatever you read from me is original, unless I specify otherwise. True, I get very wordy sometimes, it goes with the territory. But it is all me, I don’t take my words from anyone else. Especially the DNC.
But I do like Howard Dean, he’s a real burr in all of your saddles. And you are all lucky he got pushed out by big money, or he would never have let Bush steal that last election. I hope John Conyers will keep that story on the front burners, election fraud is another great excuse for impeachment.
Bush and his cronies are going to face the music some day, one way or another. If nowhere else, Abramoff’s connections to the White House will be enough to prove what a cheap place it has become. The President of Gabon paid the price of admission, and got his visit on camera for all of us to see.
All of you trolls are part and parcel of this massive scandal, you are enablers of a bad habit that the neocons can’t kick. Its called unmitigated greed.
Like I have said many times, in words I doubt the DNC would have the courage to say;
you are HYPOCRITES;
You claim Jesus but you defend war and torture; you claim free enterprise but you support Wal Mart; and you claim patriotism but you support the erosion of our civil rights. You claim the Constitution but you look the other way as it is trashed.
And then you try to make it sound like WE are the guilty parties.
I don’t need the DNC, or any organization for that matter, to tell me what you all represent. You are all just pawns in the big game, and you get your talking points right from old turdblossom.
I’m what you’d call an open source blogger. I’m not affiliated with anyone. I’m just loyal to my country, something you people have mistaken for loyalty to King W.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 08:32 PM # - Having said that, I now wish to disabuse those who are so down on the Republicans. I know a few who are horrified at what has been done in the name of their Party. Bu$h and his cabal are NOT Republicans! Any resemblance between what they are doing and the Party of Lincoln is purely accidental. There are Rethuglicans and Repukelicans, but they do not represent the real rank and file. As of now, I am predicting a low number of Republican votes in the next election, because the real Republicans, rather than vote for the criminals in charge will stay home. (Because they just can’t bring themselves to vote for a Democrat!) Now, if we can just get a handle on the Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia machines so that they give HONEST results (Of course, Ohio, Florida, and Georgia are lost causes), but if honesty can prevail in the rest of the country, maybe the Democrats CAN take back the Congress.
And as for Bu$h being a Christian – I invite all and sundry to read Matthew 5 through 7, which includes the entire Christian Credo, and can be taken as marching orders for followers of the Savior – REALLY LOOK AT IT!!! If there is a single one of the edicts of Jesus that Bu$h has not ignored, flouted, or maliciously disobeyed, I’d like to know what it was! God may indeed be telling Bu$h what to do, but the God he listens to is NOT the one painted on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. I suspect he has horns, a tail, and dresses in red leotards.
— koryannder Dec 19, 08:36 PM # - Koryander;
You are right, we have really engaged these trolls too much, and I’m the worst offender.
But when they are so easy to jab, its hard not to. I’ve dealt with some very subtle and intelligent trolls over the years, but this crew is by far the least subtle and least credible. And therefore the easiest to dispute.
For instance,
“When will they learn that they are dealing with the most moral, honest, credible administration in our history?”
Joro, of course. You and I both know he and Porcious don’t even believe that. Kee might, but Joro knows better.
They make no real arguements, they just call on the name of Clinton whenever they are required to debate any issue, like some “Bush gets out of jail free” card..
King W’s chief bootlickers have adopted this blog and along with the rest of those on your list, they show up every day and put in their time stroking each other.
For me, it has been an exercise in forensic journalism, but you are right, its time to cut them loose.
I capisce. No more troll baiting.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 08:53 PM # - I have read many of the comments on this thread and although some are quite amusing, it seems that many who post here have forgotten 9/11 and the nearly 3000 Americans who were killed just because they showed up for their jobs.
This really has nothing to do with whether you like Bush or not. It has to do with protecting the law abiding American citizen who just wants to live, raise his children and die a peaceful,natural death (brought on by too many cheeseburgers and beers). All this personal stuff about Bush or anyone else is just silly. What we all need to focus on is our safety and that of our countrymen. Are Bush and Reid doing everything they can to make America more safe? Are they trying to find the perpetrators of 9/11 so that they cannot harm us again?
Are they doing everything they can to encourage democracy in the middle east so that there will be a positive change in that area so terrorism will not be the choice of so many young Muslims? Let us all focus on what needs to be done to make America more safe for all of us. While some of the name calling is kind of funny, it solves nothing and contributes nothing to making the world a safer place.
— Linda Loo Dec 19, 08:57 PM # - Maybe we can get Senator Reid to put the names at the top of the posts. This would make it so much easier to skip the inane posts of the trolls. It didn’t take me long to remember the names. Once you have been subjected to skewed logic, you don’t want to waste your time again! I have been skipping them since I found this blog, but it is irritating to scroll up and down constantly.
The only time I actually read what they say is when someone else quotes their inanities in a rebuttal. I am so gratified by the actions of Congressman Conyers today! I have written both my Republican Senators and my Democratic Congressman and asked them to Support John Conyers! I used some of your wording, POA, because it was a powerful statement you made on Conyer’s blog.
“I call on ALL of our public servants, at the federal, state, and local levels to support Conyer’s efforts in fighting the most important political battle of our Nation’s history. The welfare of our nation depends upon your efforts.”
— Meigs Dec 19, 09:23 PM # - Linda Loo;
OK, lets focus for a moment;
The key to our own security is not in military might.
The best thing we could do to make America safe is to spend some of our obscene wealth feeding 3rd world people so they do not become our enemies.
If we had sent food packages, with the American flag on them, along with schoolbooks and clothing, to the people of Iraq over the last fifteen years, instead of taking revenge on Saddam by sanctions that he used against his people, they might not be so eager to shoot us now.
If we made overtures TODAY to every member of the axis of evil, and sent food and medicine to their sufferiing people, we might be able to feel safer here at home.
But as long as we choose to take a military posture on every issue, and ignore diplomatic and philanthropic alternatives, we will continue to create grown-up enemies out of the children we should be feeding and educating.
War abroad and “The Ugly American” corporate book cookers do little to offer us long term security, they only foment hatred against us as a nation, instead of nurturing respect and appreciation.
The naysayers will ridicule this as naive, (probably within a few minutes) but they are the very reason we perpetuate this wrong-headedness towards world diplomacy. Them and the warmongers who make their profit from selling weapons of war.
We should feed the poor of the world, and help them thrive, not exploit them for our financial gain. Then we earn their affection, rather than their hatred.
Only then will be be free from fear of foreign terrorists, bent on getting revenge on us for killing their family, trespassing on their holy ground, or taking their land and resouurces away.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 09:36 PM # - Linda Loo’s comment that “This really has nothing to do with whether you like Bush or not,”
is a remarkable exhibition of cluelessness. Bush and the GOP believe they are the Master Race of American politics, and have conducted themselves accordingly. Terrorists cannot destroy American democracy, but Bush and the GOP have been and will continue to destroy it unless millions of Americans like Linda Loo emerge from their coma.
— Rusty Dec 19, 09:45 PM # - BRAVO POA! You are correct in your stance. We must demand now instead of ask. We must call the bullshit for what it is.
When Bush said, “I don’t think much about Bin Laden”, Kerry should have said, “Bin Laden murdered 3000 Americans and will kill more of us and you are too much of a coward to go after him? We avenged Pearl Harbor! Why are we not avenging 9/11, you coward?”
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 09:53 PM # - Boxer Asks Presidential Scholars About Former White House Counsel’s Statement that Bush Admitted to an ‘Impeachable Offense’
December 19, 2005
Washington, D.C.—U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) today asked four presidential scholars for their opinion on former White House Counsel John Dean’s statement that President Bush admitted to an “impeachable offense” when he said he authorized the National Security Agency to spy on Americans without getting a warrant from a judge.
Boxer said, “I take very seriously Mr. Dean’s comments, as I view him to be an expert on Presidential abuse of power. I am expecting a full airing of this matter by the Senate in the very near future.”
Boxer’s letter is as follows:
On December 16, along with the rest of America, I learned that President Bush authorized the National Security Agency to spy on Americans without getting a warrant from a judge. President Bush underscored his support for this action in his press conference today.
On Sunday, December 18, former White House Counsel John Dean and I participated in a public discussion that covered many issues, including this surveillance. Mr. Dean, who was President Nixon’s counsel at the time of Watergate, said that President Bush is “the first President to admit to an impeachable offense.” Today, Mr. Dean confirmed his statement.
This startling assertion by Mr. Dean is especially poignant because he experienced first hand the executive abuse of power and a presidential scandal arising from the surveillance of American citizens.
Given your constitutional expertise, particularly in the area of presidential impeachment, I am writing to ask for your comments and thoughts on Mr. Dean’s statement.
Unchecked surveillance of American citizens is troubling to both me and many of my constituents. I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter as soon as possible.
Sincerely,
Barbara Boxer
United States Senator
— John Patterson Dec 19, 10:48 PM # - “War creates such a strain that all the pettiness, jealouy, ambition, greeed, and selfishness begin to leak out the seams of the average character. On top of this are the problems created by the enemy, by weather, by international politics, including age-old racial and nationalistic animosities, by every conceivable kind of difficulty, and, finally, just by the nature of war itself.” – General Dwight D. Eisenhower
It appears the Shiite majority will soon be leading the new Iraqi government. Do our neocon leaders believe they will be loyal American ally, or will they tilt towards Iran over the long run?
Wouldn’t it be ironic if by removing Sadam from power, we actually wind up strengthening Iran, a nation that has a proven track record of strong support for international terrorism?
— DTW 06 Dec 19, 11:10 PM # - There’s a snowball forming on Capitol Hill, and its rolling towards the White House, growing all the time, gaining in speed and substance.
Bush’s public admission of his wiretap felony could be enough, in and of iteslf, to bring him up for impeachment. John Dean ought to know, he’s been there and done that.
With Conyers in the House and Boxer in the Senate, even if the Republicans don’t have the courage or the political will to do the right thing, we can still make Impeachment a common word once again in the coffee shops and kitchen tables of America.
This time for all the right reasons.
If the Democrats find the gumption and the opportunity to keep it in the daily dialogue on The Hill, it will stay in the media language. Harry, as minority leader, you must find a way to get this issue on the floor at every opportunity, no matter how transparent the reference might be.
Each and every Democrat should find a way to include it in their floor speeches, whatever the subject, it shouldn’t be very hard to insert the word impeachment into any speech.
If the Republicans can insert ANWR drilling into a torture bill, we should be able to get the “I” word into the daily discussion. Especially that 30something crew, whatta bunch of young lions, I really appreciate their late-night c-span lessons.
Let them help frame this impeachment debate.
Framing is everything at this stage, and the more often Bush can be equated to domestic surveillance, torture and impeachment (all very easy to include in the sdame sentence with the name Bush) in the halls of Congress, the more the public will take note, as will the media.
Keep after em’ Harry, remember we depend on you to stand for us, as I see it, we have no other resources but the Democrats to set this ship of state back on a proper heading. But you need to lean hard into this, and make your voice clearly heard, in support of Conyers and Impeachment. Your leadership depends on it.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 19, 11:11 PM # - Taking their resources away?
The last time I checked, we paid good money for everything we get. The two places we went without invitations we are deparing as soon as possible.
— Walter E. Wallis Dec 19, 11:11 PM # - #255 – Linda Loo makes some valid points. Unfortunately, its a bit late to try her strategy in Iraq. Maybe we can try feeding and educating some poor kids back here in the USA!
No, this is not a priority for our so called leaders. They would rather build more prisons, while we close more rec centers, cut medicaid and welfare, layoff more cops, give their rich buddies more tax cuts, and keep telling America we are safer because gays can’t get married!
— DTW 06 Dec 19, 11:19 PM # - #242 – Clinton ran a balanced budget, as accurately as government accounting goes (bear in mind both parties have been raiding social security to mask the true extent of their mismanagement). He did not erase the National Debt. However, Bush is racking up record deficits and interest rates are on the rise.
Do any of you Bush lovers have children or grand-children? If so, how can you seriously defend an administration that is more irresponsible with OUR (non-millionaires) tax dollars than any in history.
By the way, the national debt first crossed the $1 Trillion mark under the voodoo/supply-side economics regime of Ronald Reagan.
— DTW 06 Dec 19, 11:32 PM # - I found this on GOP blog:
Groov, Kerry was a coward when he came home. The strikers are terrorists, they shut everything down, and Pataki & Bloombbg should fire them all.
Posted by cassy on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:59 PM | Reply
— Stunned blogger Dec 19, 11:45 PM # - It will be the republican party and GW Bush who are responsible for letting the patriot act expire. All that is needed is for Bush to sign a 90 day extention, which he said he will not do.
Thank you Mr. Bush!
“For this week, at least, the most striking thing they have in common is an unshaken resolve to oppose the law’s proposed renewal despite heated appeals by President Bush. “The senators who are filibustering the Patriot Act must stop their delaying tactics,” Bush said Monday. He said he will not sign a temporary extension of the existing law, a plan pushed by Democrats who want to allow House-Senate negotiators to resume talks in hopes of a four-year renewal.”
— bill_o_carolina Dec 19, 11:56 PM # - The real terrorists are the neocons who are constantly telling us we must be fearful. Soon there may even be an attack just to bring their point home.
“All we have to fear is fear itself!”
— bill_o_carolina Dec 20, 12:05 AM # - Want a very scary trip into the Bush twilight zone?
We talk about Bush trashing the constitution, and the Bill of Rights.
But for a very unnerving reference, pick up your copy of The Declaration of Inependence and go to the line,
“To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world” then just start reading.
Make sure you are sitting down.
The very first line reads “He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good”
It just gets worse from there. Downright freaky.
I realize that our post-modern George II is a numerical digression from our revolutionary villain George III, but the accusations leveled against the tyrant of antiquity will ring very familiar to those of us who have doubted the Democracy of our current president since long before he gained office through Supreme Court appointment.
Give it a quick read, it made me shiver when the similarities sunk in. There’s even a reference to Delay’s Texas redistricting style.
No kidding.
In the Declaration of Independence!
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:10 AM # - History is being made at www.ConyersBlog.us
“The Constitution in Crisis: The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution and Coverups in the Iraq War.”
God Bless America!
— DTW 06 Dec 20, 12:14 AM # - #253
Read the comments here. See, according to the Bush haters, 9/11 was an isolated incident. According to them, they are willing to sacrifice your life, your childrens’ lives, my life, and the lives of every American, in order to pay off any other nation that wants to extort from the US. They believe that making these payoffs will mean we are looked upon as nicer and they will leave us alone, as long as we keep making payment. Every other nation in the world is more trustworthy than us, and we were attacked because everything the US ever did was wrong. And as long as the trustworthy terrorists leave us alone, the Bush haters can continue to the freedom that is partial birth abortion on demand, and establishing child pornography as a First Amendment right. Of course, that will only last until the trustworthy terrorists want to extort us again.
Paints a pretty clear picture, doesn’t it John?
— Steve Dec 20, 12:25 AM # - “But you need to lean hard into this, and make your voice clearly heard, in support of Conyers and Impeachment. Your leadership depends on it.”
You keep that up and I might just hafta bury the hatchet and admit that I too have very long hair, and a grey beard.
But I will make you a “gentleman’s”, (or an “old hippie’s”) bet…...
Reid is gonna wimp out on us.
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 12:46 AM # - I hope you are wrong…But only about this.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:49 AM # - So, is Sen. Reid going to return the money he got from the clients of Jack Abramoff? Or is he truly a part of what the Democrats are, a culture of corruption?
There was a mention of poor kids and rec centers above. How many rec centers and kids clubs have to be closed down to keep Air un-America operating? Is it the usual modus operandi for rich liberals to steal from the poor and everybody else and give to themselves? Are they heros?
— Steve Dec 20, 12:50 AM # - Read the comments here. See, according to the Bush haters, 9/11 was an isolated incident. According to them, they are willing to sacrifice your life, your childrens’ lives, my life, and the lives of every American, in order to pay off any other nation that wants to extort from the US. They believe that making these payoffs will mean we are looked upon as nicer and they will leave us alone, as long as we keep making payment. Every other nation in the world is more trustworthy than us, and we were attacked because everything the US ever did was wrong. And as long as the trustworthy terrorists leave us alone, the Bush haters can continue to the freedom that is partial birth abortion on demand, and establishing child pornography as a First Amendment right. Of course, that will only last until the trustworthy terrorists want to extort us again.
Paints a pretty clear picture, doesn’t it John?
— Steve
Use your brains and IGNORE this asshole
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 12:52 AM # - WALLACE: I just have to pick up on this, because you’ve been mentioning corruption several times here. One of the biggest scandals in Washington right now involves Jack Abramoff, a lobbyist who’s under investigation, and his clients.
It turns out that you received $66,000 in campaign contributions from Abramoff and his clients. Some of your colleagues…
REID: Chris, Chris…
WALLACE: May I ask the question?
REID: Don’t try to say I received money from Abramoff.
REID: I’ve never met the man, don’t know anything…
WALLACE: But you’ve received money from…
REID: Make sure that all your viewers understand — not a penny from Abramoff. I’ve been on the Indian Affairs Committee my whole time in the Senate.
WALLACE: But you’ve received money from his firm. You’ve received money from some of his clients. The question I’m asking if I may get the question out, Senator. Some of your colleagues, both Republican and Democrats, have given back campaign contributions that had any taint of Abramoff to it. Are you going to do so?
REID: Well, first of all, Chris, make sure that — again, I’ll repeat, Abramoff gave me no money. His firm gave me no money. He may have worked a firm where people have given me money. But I have — I feel totally at ease that I haven’t done anything that is even close to being wrong.
And I’m going to continue doing what I’ve done for my entire tenure in Congress. My record — any money that I’ve received — it’s a federal law. You can look who gave it to me, how much, when they gave it to me, and what their occupations are.
So don’t lump me in with Jack Abramoff. This is a Republican scandal. Don’t try to give any of it to me.
— Nevada Swag - Dem Stickers Dec 20, 01:05 AM # - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-cobble/wwwcensurebushorg_b_12664.html
*
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 01:09 AM # - FISA judge resigns over Bush’s mockery of the court, see dailykos.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 20, 01:12 AM # - Steve;
Are you a Scientologist?
Seriously. You are brainwashed, thats for sure. Your convoluted logic is self-fulfilling. And all your examples are stereotypes, neither realistic or reasonable.
Your simplistic perspective of how the world views the US and how the US views the world seem terribly confused.
You need to meet some new people with a broader perspective. Stay away from those OTO lodges. And at least be willing to co-inhabit the planet with people who are different from you.
Open up a dialogue with someone who doesn’t agree with you.
If you could ask any of the terrorists who flew those planes into the Twin Towers, why they did it, they would give you one reason.
They want the U.S. out of the middle east in general and out of Saudi Arabia in particular.
They did not attack us because they wanted to take over our country or overthrow our government, or because we are Christians and Jews. They weren’t jealous of our wealth and oppulence, no matter what Bush and Cheney have said.
They attacked us here because they wanted us to stop exploiting the resources there, in their country and the wanted us to depart from lands they consider holy.
But you seem to think they were here to invade us, the first wave of the Muslim horde, poised to attack and conquer us when we are weak, to take our TV’s and our SUV’s away from us because they do so envy our way of life…
Sheer lunacy.
And was any of this got to do with abortion and pornography? You are putting too many paranoid thoughts under one big, confused emotional umbrella.
Get some therapy, and don’t let your cult buddies tell you otherwise. The only picture you paint is one of total disconnection from reality. That is certainly clear.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 01:34 AM # - Thanks for the heads up, Bill. Of course, the Bush apologists will still claim to know more about FISA law than this judge that resigned.
Report: FISA judge resigns over Bush plan
WASHINGTON, Dec. 20 (UPI)—A judge on a secret U.S. court that oversees domestic spying has resigned over President Bush’s end run around the court, a report says.
The Washington Post said U.S. District Judge James Robertson is one of 11 members of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, called the FISA court.
Robertson sent a letter to Chief Justice John Roberts late Monday telling him about the resignation, but without giving a reason, the Post said.
Robertson privately expressed concern that the surveillance authorized by the president in 2001 “may have tainted the FISA court’s work,” the Post said.
A Clinton appointee, Robertson was appointed to the FISA court by the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist.
The surveillance monitored international calls from the United States without a warrant issued by a court.
Since media reports revealed the surveillance program, some politicians on both sides of the aisle have expressed doubts about its legality.
However, the president has said the program is legal, and he would continue to use it to prosecute the war on terror.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051220-23324700-bc-us-fisacourt.xml
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 01:41 AM # - Yes POA, they claim to know more about the law and Valery Wilson’s covert status than does the CIA and Fitzgerald combined. It’s amazing how educational rush lamebrain and bill o’lie-ly are.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 20, 03:13 AM # - The history of George W. Bush and his sordid Rovian Cult is a history of repeated outrages and crimes, all perpetrated with brazen impunity. Here is a random sampling of their crimes, corruption, and treason:
After riding to his first inaugural in Ken Lay’s jet, Bush presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in the history of the world.
Because he can’t be bothered to read his own PDB’s, Bush presided over the worst security failure in American history, condemning 3,000 Americans to be slaughtered in broad daylight on national television.
Because he’s a Texan with a cactus up his ass, Bush wasted the world’s sympathy after 9/11 and in less than a year made America the most resented country in the world.
Because he didn’t want to catch Bin Laden, Bush unlawfully orchestrated the invasion and bloody military occupation of a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
After flushing his “I’m a uniter, not a divider” promise down Air Force One’s toilet, Bush set the record for the most campaign fund-raising trips by any president in American history.
When he wasn’t busy executing retarded people, Bush appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in American history.
While mocking “tax and spend liberals” Bush spent the Clinton surplus and shattered the record for the biggest annual deficits in human history.
Because he is an occupier not a liberator, Bush refused to recognize the jurisdiction of the World Court.
Because he rules through propaganda and staged photo ops, Bush has spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in American history.
Because of Bush’s torture policies, the United States has been expelled from the UN Human Rights Commission.
Bush has cut unemployment benefits for more jobless Americans than any president in American history. He calls it compassionate conservatism.
Bush has presided over the worst energy crises in American history. But that’s OK, that round, bright thing in the sky will keep us warm.
The American people are being burdened by the highest gasoline prices in American history. Bush’s solution: hold hands with a Saudi despot and smirk for the cameras.
Bush has cut health care benefits for war veterans, perhaps because no one in his administration, nor any of their children, is serving in the military.
Because he has political crimes to conceal, all records of Bush’s tenure as governor of Texas have been sealed.
Because he has business crimes to conceal, all records of SEC investigations into Bush’s insider trading and bankrupt companies have been sealed.
Bush changed American policy so convicted criminals can be awarded government contracts. Go figure.
Bush is guilty of treason for actively concealing the treason of Cheney/Rove/Libby/ and their co-conspirators, who destroyed a CIA network protecting America from terrorist WMD’s.
3,000 Americans died on 9/11 because of Bush’s criminal incompetence. 2,200 American soldiers have died in Iraq because of Bush’s criminal incompetence. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have died because of Bush’s criminal incompetence.
For those of you keeping score at home, Bush is a lying, criminally incompetent traitor with a cactus up his ass who thinks the Constitution is just a God-damned piece of paper. He is loathed and despised by hundreds of millions of people around the world who recognize a fascist when they see one, and will be driven from office by the American people when the gruesome totality of his crimes against democracy and justice are exposed.
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— SergoLox Dec 20, 04:57 AM # - John, John, John, John, John.
“Open up a dialogue with someone who doesn’t agree with you.”
I would, but dialogue and debate doesn’t occur here, only the blind hatred of President Bush. That is what it is; blind, unadulterated hatred of Bush. Nothing less, nothing more. And you say I’m the one who needs therapy? I don’t think so.
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— didrex Dec 20, 08:53 AM # - Hmmm. Well, we kind of passed over the topic of this column which is what needs to be done in a year of transition.
So I’ll make a New Year’s wishlist:
1. Clearly defined timetable (whether linked to “victory” or not) of withdrawal from Iraq
2. Return to a congress of debate and discussion.
3. An end to the nepharious business of sticking items in a bill that has been signed off in committee. Maybe a return to reading the bill aloud in session? lol
4. Pulling all the rats out of their holes and putting them in jail—and that’s both red and blue rats.
5. Start repairing our image and international relations. I don’t understand our relationship with Cuba versus our relationship with China. It doesn’t make sense. Comeon, guys, restore relations with Cuba if we are going to deal with China.
6. Get healthcare off the backs of companies so they can compete internationally and we don’t lose companies to other countries with a more rational approach to healthcare.
7. For god’s sake, get rid of Medicare D.
8. Work on the deficit. That means lots of tax cuts have to be rescinded.
I’ll think of more during the day, I’m sure.
utahgirl
— utahgirl Dec 20, 08:57 AM # - ALLRIGHT LIBBERS LISTEN UP,WATCH MY LIPS:
CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS—WITHOUT COURT ORDER CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: ‘ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE’ WITHOUT COURT ORDER
Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approvalClinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”
July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also—in the delicate words of a Justice Department official—to “places where you wouldn’t find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen… would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order.”
EVEN THIS BOOB “WALL OF SECRECY GORLICK”
Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president “has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes.”
HERE LET ME HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND . WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE TO DESTROY MY/OUR ? COUNTRY .THEY CALL EACH OTHER AND MY/OUR PEOPLE LISTEN,OK GOT IT .
Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames’s office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.
Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”—-CASE CLOSED, IPSO FACTO !! NEXT DELUSION PLEASE !
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— florida lotto Dec 20, 09:24 AM # - Harry;
Now they are really desperate.
You need to keep these sleazy blog ads off the blog, its OK to administrate that bs off of the pages.
THIS HAPPENED ON SOME OF THE MORE INFLUENTIAL PROGRESSIVE BLOGS AS THEY BEGAN TO GROW INFLUENTIAL.
I don’t think it is really advertising, it is subterfuge disguised as sleaze.
It only seems to happen when a blog begins to have some serious influence, and I suspect the RNC and their cult bubbas are involved.
Just mention Scientology (which I did yesterday) and you get computer viruses and sleazy emails and postings.
The Scientologists are one of the most desperate of Bush’s circle of secret influence. They control vast amounts of wealth and use hollywood to influence public thought.They may very well be responsible for these sleazy ads, they hacked both Iowa’s and Germany’s software systems (and got caught), and they are closely connected to the Florida Republican Party.
It is one of those dirty little Republican secrets they do not want their Christian base to be aware of, if the Christians knew how much power Bush has handed over to these cults, they would walk out of the Republican Party.
The Moonies are in the thick of it, too.
Sun Yung Moon actually used our Dirksen Office Building to have himself crowned as Jesus Christ!!!!
Anyone remember that fiasco? Bush is truly a cult figure, and the Christians who continue to support him when they know who he’s in bed with are just as guilty as the cults. If you have any doubt as to how brainwashed Bush’s supporter are, just read some of their posts on this blog, then wight it aginst the daily bews, These people are blinded and deafened by their cultlike adoration of an imaginary Bush.
Try posting the story about Moon using our federal property to have himself crowned “King of the Universe” on one of the blogs for Bush, it will never see the light of blog. They are so scared their Christian base is going to find out how deeply these cults are involved, they are desperate to keep the dialogue off the info circuit.
They all get “faith based counseling” funds, and they have all played a role in the subterfuge against local Democratic candidates. The Scientologists are particularly known for their own, shadow “secret spy” mentallity.
Their role in the election fraud scandals of 2000, 2002 and 2004 may be much more pervasive than even the cult experts suspect.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 10:28 AM # - Who are the two Democrats who are supporting the UnPatriot act?
Can we put together a group or a blogsite to help get them beat in their districts by some GOOD Democrats?
Harry, these two Republicrats should be shouldered right out of power. They are enabling our all-or-nothing president, why is he so allergic to a 3-month extension, if they aren’t planning to use that unconstitutional power over the next election cycle.
Bravo for the four Republicans who are standing against BushCo, and shame on the Democrats who support him.
I mean that in all seriousness, is there a website or a group anywhere committed to boosting these false Democrats from office in their own local primaries?
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 10:31 AM # - Utahgirl;
Would you consider running for office? I probably don’t live in your district, but I’d vote for you if I did.
I mean that in all seriousness.
You should run for public office and get your agenda out where it could do us all some good. We need more people like you in political office and not just on the blogs and in the letters-to-the-editor sections of your local paper.
Why is it we rarely hear this kind of basic, reasonable logic from our elected officials? It comes in tidbits and particles, but rarely in a single document.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 10:42 AM # - Fellow liberals;
This is one of those seminal moments in political history when the circle comes full around.
The gun rights activists will prove to be one of the biggest allies in this fight for an end to the UnPatriot Act.
I’m not a fan of the NRA, while they were at one time a venerable organization of sportsmen and patriots, I think they’ve been hijacked by the gun corporations, who also make money making and selling weapons of war.
But the rank and file NRA members are sincere in their demand for their Constitutional rights, and they will prove to be worthy allies in this battle for our American freedoms.
Put aside your difference with them for a while; they aren’t going to shoot you. While the NRA itself doesn’t have the dignity to oppose BushCo’s unpatriot act, its members will.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 10:52 AM # - APPARENTLY REID PAYS ATTENTION TO THIS SITE. LAST NIGHT I POSTED THE FACT THAT HE HAS COLLECTED OVER $318,000 DOLLARS OF PRO-ISREALI PACs IN THE COURSE OF HIS CAREER. THAT IS FACT. I ALSO POSTED THAT IN JUST 2003/2004 HE COLLECTED OVER $64,000. THAT TOO IS FACT. I ALSO POINTED OUT THAT THAT IS THE SAME FEEDING TROUGH THAT WOLFOWITZ, PERL, FIETH AND ZELL FEED FROM. ANOTHER FACT.
THE POST HAS BEEN REMOVED. NOTE THAT SPAM ADVERTISING A LOTTERY SITE REMAINS ON THE FORUM. NOTE THAT MEANINGLESS RIGHT WING TRIPE REMAINS ON THE FORUM. NOTE THAT THE ACT OF ME CALLING STEVE AN “ASSHOLE” REMAINS ON THE FORUM.
WHAT DOES REID DO HERE??? DOES HE REMOVE SPAM? DOES HE REMOVE PROFANITIES?? DOES HE ADDRESS OUR CONCERNS ABOUT PHASE TWO??? DOES HE OFFER SUPPORT FOR CONYERS EFFORTS?? A STATEMENT??? NO. WHAT HE DOES IS ATTEMPT TO CENSURE THE FACT THAT HE IS IN AIPAC’s POCKET. THE SAME POCKET THAT SO MANY OF THE NEOCONS ARE IN. MAKES ONE WONDER, DOESN’T IT?
Who DOES pay your wages, Harry??
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 10:57 AM # - Yes POA, they claim to know more about the law and Valery Wilson’s covert status than does the CIA and Fitzgerald combined. It’s amazing how educational rush lamebrain and bill o’lie-ly are.
— bill_o_carolina Dec 21, 04:13 AM #
Hey BOC, it is abundantly clear that you wish to demean our President regardless of the fact we are at war, regardless of the rule of law and regardless of what has transpire under previous administrations. Ask yourself, “why did the judge wait 4 years to resign if he had a problem with the legality of the issue?”
BOC, can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E?
FLASHBACK: CLINTON, CARTER SEARCH ‘N SURVEILLANCE WITHOUT COURT ORDER
Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approval
Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”
WASH POST, July 15, 1994, “Administration Backing No-Warrant Spy Searches”: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also—in the delicate words of a Justice Department official—to “places where you wouldn’t find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen… would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order.”
Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president “has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes.”
Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames’s office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.
Government officials decided in the Ames case that no warrant was required because the searches were conducted for “foreign intelligence purposes.”
Government lawyers have used this principle to justify other secret searches by U.S. authorities.
“The number of such secret searches conducted each year is classified…”
Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”
END
— Kee Dec 20, 11:10 AM # - THINK ABOUT IT FOLKS. 289 POSTS ON THIS THREAD. AND THE ONE POST THAT GETS REMOVED IS THE ONE THAT LISTS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY REID HAS ACCEPTED FROM PRO-ISRAELI PAC’S OVER THE COURSE OF HIS CAREER.
WELL REID, YOU AREN’T GOING TO EXPLAIN THAT TO US EITHER, ARE YOU? YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT PHASE TWO. YOU REFUSE TO MAKE A CLEAR FORCEFUL STATEMENT IN REGARDS TO THE PRESIDENT’S ILLEGAL SPYING ON AMERICAN CITIZENS. YOU SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE EFFORTS OF A TRUE PUBLIC SERVANT AND PATRIOT SUCH AS JOHN CONYERS, AND HIS COURAGEOUS STAND AGAINST THOSE THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO OPPOSE.
WHATS IMPORTANT TO YOU???
HIDING YOUR PURSE STRINGS.
SHAME ON YOU.
STEP DOWN.
I WANT REPRESENTATION.
I AM NOT AN ISRAELI.
I AM NOT RICH.
I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE.
I AM AN AMERICAN.
STEP DOWN.
I WANT REPRESENTATION.
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 11:15 AM # - POA, you hit the nail on the proverbial head. The only things Harry is concerned about are money in his pocket and re-election.
— Kee Dec 20, 11:27 AM # - Harry;
You need to tell your blog administrators they will lose everyone but the trolls if they aren’t willing to let the blog stay open.
I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it is obvious many others are not, so you need to let the dialog take whatever course it will, short of sleazy, illegal ads.
Anything else, no matter how controversial, has to be allowed, or your blog will cease to be the tool of Truth is has become.
There are two sides to this arguement, too. I do not necessarily find it a negative fact that you have received money from pro-Israeli pacs.
I am not ready to give up our alliance with Israel, but I am also not Islamophobic. Neither are many Israelis. And Jesus made it quite clear to the woman at the well that “Zion” is in the heart, not in a geographic location.
“The Israelis” is a big umbrella term, I know there are some very good Israelis who understand exactly what we do, and agree with us about Bush and his bullies.
There is also a very powerful Peace Movement in Israel, we don’t hear enough about it in the conservative MSM, but many Israelis really do want to make peace with the Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world.
But they have their own bullies to contend with, and it is just as hard for them to make changes for world peace as it is for us, probably much harder.
I don’t know which PACS gave you money, or whether they are in any way involved with the Israeli Peace Movement.
But you shouldn’t be ashamed of your sources, if you are willing to take their money.
POA is right, there are some imminent issues you alone, as minority leader, can reassure us about. You need to join the cause, especially the call for impeachment, openly and outright, or explain why you won’t.
If you choose not to take up the gauntlet, It will be hard to justify, even to supporters like me.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 11:33 AM # - Bush cultists;
You all accuse us of hating Bush.
Wake up, brainwashed rabble, the truth is, we are not hateful antagonists, the real problem is that you are all adoring subjects who can’t stand hear the truth about your cult hero, King W.
So you say we all hate him.
We don’t hate Bush, we love America and our freedoms.
If we seem angry, you got that right. Frustrate, for sure.
Lets try a little experiment in reality;
“We know we are victims of the Bush era of mass deception.”
SO do you think that last sentence was “Bush Hating”?
“Bush is the worst president in our history.”
Do you think that represents “Bush Hating?”
“Bush lied to us about wmd.”
Was that more “Bush Hating?”
“Bush broke the law when he ordered domestic wiretaps without FISA approval.”
...was that more “Bush Hating?”
These are all very reasonable statements and arguments for a disgruntled American to make, whether you agree with them or not, there is no hate involved, mostly frustration.
But you Bush cultists are so afraid your thought-reform will be reformed if you allow criticism of what many consider a failed Presidency, you call us all “haters” just because we criticize your cult-hero.
We don’t hate Bush with blind, unreasoning rage, but you all love him with blind, unreasoning adoration. Therein lies the real problem.
We aren’t haters.
You are lemmings.
Which is why it all seems so hateful to all of you BushCulties. Blind faith in a false demigog makes you numb to the daily truth. Any suggestion you might have been wrong all along you convert to “hate.”
Like I said, we don’t hate Bush, we just love America. Having no respect for someone who trashes what we consider sacred documents (like the Constitution) is not tantamount to hate, it is just plain old disgust.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:01 PM # - POA is right, there are some imminent issues you alone, as minority leader, can reassure us about. You need to join the cause, especially the call for impeachment, openly and outright, or explain why you won’t.
If you choose not to take up the gauntlet, It will be hard to justify, even to supporters like me.
JEP
— John Patterson
John, when can I collect on my bet? The topic of Reid’s newest statement for discussion says it all. Reid is going to leave Conyers standing alone in his efforts. And unless Reid, and many others join him, you know as well as I do that that Conyers efforts will fail.
If I do not see a strong statement from Reid TODAY on Conyers efforts, than I can only assume Reid abets and approves of the core travesties that the Bush Administration is committing against this nation, and he belongs in the same federal penetentiary that I hope to see Bush and Cheney languishing in. (But never will, because of traitors and duplicitous opportunists like Harry Reid.)
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 12:03 PM # - Of course we’ll end up with a Shiite majority led, Pro-Iranian, government. Anyone that bothered to take a look at the reality of the region saw that coming a mile away. We have our wanna-be religious nuts here like GWB and Bill O’Rielly but our nuts are pseudo-nut cases. These Muslim people are REALLY religious. The Shiites waited how long for Saddam to get the boot? We somehow thought they were like our religious whackjobs and would change their tune when we came waltzing in. Go figure, they just picked up where they left off as if the whole thing had been a horrible Sienfeld episode gone awry. Since Regime change and installing Democracy was just the best idea left on the table after the WMD fiasco was revealed is it any wonder it will fail? The Sunnis are declaring the vote a fraud and vowing Civil War. The only “stabilizing” idea in the region is that both sides want us gone. We can have all the debate over hating Bush or loving him but that will not change the outcome. When you don’t have a clear objective in any situation the chances that you will have a predictable outcome rely purely on luck. If Bush had, had any successful business deals he might understand that. Instead he has been rescued by any number of rich benefactors. Who will rescue him this time? Much more importantly who will rescue us???
Why did we listen to the “C” student in the first place? Isn’t the Presidency supposed to mean more than hiring a gun-slinger? And if we did need a gun-slinger why didn’t we pick one that has actually fired one? Instead we let the Republican machine tell us that the true war hero was a coward. Just look at all the fools on this site that use their clever little lines like “coward-Kerry”. Their evidence is the testimony of a small group of Vets that simply hated Kerry for his post-service views. We let them push GWB as a war hero when he never attended much less participated. I have NO problem with the fact that Kerry did not win. But what I have a problem with is the fact that the Republicans used lies and deception to make that happen. Because the Dems are not nearly as good at hate and betrayal, they were defeated. Sadly there is a good arguement to be made that if you can’t thwart that kind of evil you can’t protect us against an ever threatening world so we take our chances and just hope there is some limit to the damage the Republicans can do in 8 years.
We let the GOP run with the notion that there was a connection between 9/11 and Saddam. Of course there will be the usual Bushies like joro-Coulter that will point to some chance meeting that, for them, solidifies the conspiriacy while completely ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of the terrorists on 9/11 were Saudis. But lets not upset the balance by adding truth to the mix.
— PCruz Dec 20, 12:08 PM # - One more lesson for the cult members;
Read Post 280, if you have the courage. Rusty’s made a short list of the Truth none of you can accept.
There’s not as single false or hateful statement in the entire post, but you will all cower and snarl like rabid dogs when you read it, and your busy little brainwashed minds will run from end to end, trying to find a rebuttal.
That is your problem. In defending your failed president at any cost, you make rebuttals against the truth, and when you can’t find the lies to defend your cult-hero, you blame it on Bill and call us all haters.
What you fear more than anything is that your President might just be the failure we tell you he is. That thought just can’t creep into your crowded, busy, hateful little brains.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:16 PM # - PCruz; You hit the nail on the head with this one.
“The only “stabilizing” idea in the region is that both sides want us gone.”
See, Bush has actually given the Iraqis something to work together for.
This may be as close as we get to “Victory” in Iraq, the fact that they all want us out!
And Kerry did win, the Republicans cheated, the proof is already on the table of Bush Scandals, but no one is eating it, with all the other food laying there.
Soon, though, it will become the main course, there are some big surprised in store.
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:23 PM # - POA
TODAY is a big word. For now, I’m giving him the benifit of the doubt, but I understand why you and many others might not.
I’ll wait until Harry comes right out and openly refuses to help Conyers, if that happens, I’m outa here.
What other blogs would you suggest we visit to stay abreast of these issues?
JEP
— John Patterson Dec 20, 12:31 PM # - TODAY is a big word. For now, I’m giving him the benifit of the doubt, but I understand why you and many others might not.
I’ll wait until Harry comes right out and openly refuses to help Conyers, if that happens, I’m outa here.
What other blogs would you suggest we visit to stay abreast of these issues?
JEP
— John Patterson
Reid isn’t going to do that. He is simply going to ignore Conyers while the “swiftboaters” and the Oreillys tear Conyers a new asshole and ruin his reputation.
Later, I may answer via email. I am not interested in dragging these trolls into some very well connected and active blogs. And, no offense intended, I am not ready to trust your motives yet either. The handwriting is on the wall with this coward Reid, and your seeming denial about it worries me. Let me think about it.
However, I must add, the first trifecta only took one morning. With these people, TODAY is an eternity.
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 12:45 PM # - Testing.
— Pissed Off American Dec 20, 02:00 PM # - TWU Local 100 sucks!!!! As I walk across the Brooklyn Bridge in sub 0 temps to get into the city and work, I hope the mayor personally escorts Roger Toussaint to Rikers Island.
Okay, got that off my chest…..
Now back to our regularly scheduled program….
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— adipex Dec 20, 06:10 PM # - Clinton’s Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee on July 14, 1994 and stated that the executive branch has “inherent authority to conduct warrantless PHYSICAL SEARCHES.”
Media Matters vaporized the latest WINGNUT LIE by pointing out that “physical searches” are not the same as electronic surveillance and, as Gorelick’s testimony made clear, were not restricted at that time by the Foreign Intelligence Authorization Act (FISA), which has since been amended to include them.
The foreign intelligence activity that the Bush administration has argued it can conduct without warrants—domestic wiretapping—has for 27 years been governed by FISA, which specifically requires court orders. On the other hand, the foreign intelligence activity to which Gorelick was referring—“physical searches”—was not covered by FISA when she said that Clinton had the “inherent authority to conduct” them. Further, Gorelick testified that she supported legislation requiring FISA warrants for physical searches. Following the passage of such legislation in 1995, the Clinton administration no longer asserted that it had the authority to conduct warrantless physical searches.
Consequently, all of you WINGNUT LIARS on this blog should print out a thousand copies of this post and shove them up your fascist rectums one at a time. Keep doing that until I tell you to stop.
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— diazepam Dec 20, 08:26 PM # - #250 Patterson. “But I do like Howard Dean, he’s a real burr in all of your saddles. ”
Screechin’ Howie Dean is the best thing that ever happened to the GOP. Dean just keeps on giving. We loved his recent world wide pronouncement that America cannot win the war. That alone should help us get an additional 3 to 4 % of the votes.
— joro Dec 20, 08:34 PM # - #253. I have read many of the comments on this thread and although some are quite amusing, it seems that many who post here have forgotten 9/11 and the nearly 3000 Americans who were killed just because they showed up for their jobs.
This really has nothing to do with whether you like Bush or not. It has to do with protecting the law abiding American citizen who just wants to live, raise his children and die a peaceful,natural death (brought on by too many cheeseburgers and beers). All this personal stuff about Bush or anyone else is just silly. What we all need to focus on is our safety and that of our countrymen. Are Bush and Reid doing everything they can to make America more safe? Are they trying to find the perpetrators of 9/11 so that they cannot harm us again?
Are they doing everything they can to encourage democracy in the middle east so that there will be a positive change in that area so terrorism will not be the choice of so many young Muslims? Let us all focus on what needs to be done to make America more safe for all of us. While some of the name calling is kind of funny, it solves nothing and contributes nothing to making the world a safer place.
— Linda Loo Dec 20, 09:57 PM #
Linda Loo, I copied your entire post because it bears repeating. The Reid blog could have served a good American purpose but sadly it was taken over by a few radical wannabe neolib trolls who are so partisan with their ignorant parroting of the DNC propaganda, that it has become senseless. Those libs, supporting their obstructionist, immoral leaders, have as you say, forgotten the people diving out of the 59th floor of the WTC or the descriptions of the terrorists slitting the throats of the airplane pilots. You ask if Bush and Reid are doing what is necessary to protect our lives. Today, Reid is filibustering the Defense Bill. Yesterday he began the filibuster of the Patriot Act. Reid’s every action puts our lives at risk. Why? He is not only being childish as Senator Frist said but he is showing us he is anti-American. I am ashamed he is my Senator from Nevada.
— joro Dec 20, 08:48 PM # - #263 By the way, the national debt first crossed the $1 Trillion mark under the voodoo/supply-side economics regime of Ronald Reagan.
— DTW 06 Dec 21, 12:32 AM #
The trillion dollar mark was reached in FY ending 9/30/81. This was Jimmy Carters budget.
— joro Dec 20, 09:01 PM # - #263 DTW. Clinton ran a balanced budget, as accurately as government accounting goes (bear in mind both parties have been raiding social security to mask the true extent of their mismanagement).
If Clinton ran a balanced budget, why did the national debt increase each and every year for a total of $1.6 trillion during his miserable, corrupt years? You are repeating the DNC lies.
Social Security surplus collections are by law, initiated by FDR, used for general fund expenses or debt reduction. President Bush wants to change that by transfering ownership to Americas workers but the Democrats are preventing that from happening. TAX AND SPEND Democrats want to blow the money on asinine government socialist programs. Johnson, a Democrat, was the first to hide the SS surplus in the General Fund to disquise his red ink spending.
— joro Dec 20, 09:09 PM # - #274. So don’t lump me in with Jack Abramoff. This is a Republican scandal. Don’t try to give any of it to me.
— Nevada Swag – Dem Stickers Dec 21, 02:05 AM #
Reid getting a reported $66,000 from Abramoff is a Republican scandal??? Only Harry could come up with that line!!! That is why Harry is coming to be known as one of the biggest liars in the Demonrat party. That says a lot with Hillary as one of their members.
— joro Dec 20, 09:26 PM # - #278 However, the president has said the program is legal, and he would continue to use it to prosecute the war on terror.
— Pissed Off American Dec 21, 02:41 AM #
All Americans should kneel beside their beds tonight and thank God for giving us President George W. Bush. He is doing a fantastic job of protecting us Americans even with such America haters as Harry Reid bragging he “Killed the Patriot Act” or his filibuster of the money for our national defense. Harry even filibustered disaster relief for Katrina victims. The Demonrats are not only immoral but heartless too. Here we are in a couple of days celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and this is how the Demonrats act!!!
— joro Dec 20, 09:36 PM # - #280 — Rusty Dec 21, 05:09 AM #
Rusty, your link takes us to Reid’s blog. Are you on the payroll of his illegal propaganda machine being paid with our tax dollars?
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— tramadol Dec 20, 09:41 PM # - #287 Patterson. Just mention Scientology (which I did yesterday) and you get computer viruses and sleazy emails and postings.
The Scientologists are one of the most desperate of Bush’s circle of secret influence. They control vast amounts of wealth and use hollywood to influence public thought.Patterson
Man, you are the most uninformed lefty ever encountered on the blogs.
— joro Dec 20, 09:53 PM # - 293/294. THINK ABOUT IT FOLKS. 289 POSTS ON THIS THREAD. AND THE ONE POST THAT GETS REMOVED IS THE ONE THAT LISTS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY REID HAS ACCEPTED FROM PRO-ISRAELI PAC’S OVER THE COURSE OF HIS CAREER.
WELL REID, YOU AREN’T GOING TO EXPLAIN THAT TO US EITHER, ARE YOU? YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT PHASE TWO. YOU REFUSE TO MAKE A CLEAR FORCEFUL STATEMENT IN REGARDS TO THE PRESIDENT’S ILLEGAL SPYING ON AMERICAN CITIZENS. YOU SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE EFFORTS OF A TRUE PUBLIC SERVANT AND PATRIOT SUCH AS JOHN CONYERS, AND HIS COURAGEOUS STAND AGAINST THOSE THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO OPPOSE.
WHATS IMPORTANT TO YOU???
HIDING YOUR PURSE STRINGS.
SHAME ON YOU.
STEP DOWN.
I WANT REPRESENTATION.
I AM NOT AN ISRAELI.
I AM NOT RICH.
I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE.
I AM AN AMERICAN.
STEP DOWN.
I WANT REPRESENTATION.
— Pissed Off American Dec 21, 12:15 PM #
POA, you hit the nail on the proverbial head. The only things Harry is concerned about are money in his pocket and re-election.
— Kee Dec 21, 12:27 PM #
Harry has fed at the public trough all of his life but yet his required financial disclosure form shows he is a millionaire many times over.
GIVE HARRY HELL
— joro Dec 20, 10:02 PM # - #304. TWU Local 100 sucks!!!! As I walk across the Brooklyn Bridge in sub 0 temps to get into the city and work, I hope the mayor personally escorts Roger Toussaint to Rikers Island.
Okay, got that off my chest…..
Now back to our regularly scheduled program….
— Ayana Dec 21, 04:53 PM #
Most of the special interests like the TWU that support Demonrats are criminal. The Demonrat party is made up of these special interests like the Sierra Club, PETA, Trial lawyers, etc., with deep pockets. Demonrat politicians all are on the take at contribution time so Demonrats no long serve America as evidenced by Harry Reid’s obstructionism but instead they serve only their special interests like Abramoff who contributed a reported $66,000 to Harry Reid.
— joro Dec 20, 10:17 PM # - #306. Clinton’s Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee on July 14, 1994 and stated that the executive branch has “inherent authority to conduct warrantless PHYSICAL SEARCHES.”
Media Matters vaporized the latest WINGNUT LIE by pointing out that “physical searches” are not the same as electronic surveillance and, as Gorelick’s testimony made clear, were not restricted at that time by the Foreign Intelligence Authorization Act (FISA), which has since been amended to include them.
The foreign intelligence activity that the Bush administration has argued it can conduct without warrants—domestic wiretapping—has for 27 years been governed by FISA, which specifically requires court orders. On the other hand, the foreign intelligence activity to which Gorelick was referring—“physical searches”—was not covered by FISA when she said that Clinton had the “inherent authority to conduct” them. Further, Gorelick testified that she supported legislation requiring FISA warrants for physical searches. Following the passage of such legislation in 1995, the Clinton administration no longer asserted that it had the authority to conduct warrantless physical searches.
Consequently, all of you WINGNUT LIARS on this blog should print out a thousand copies of this post and shove them up your fascist rectums one at a time. Keep doing that until I tell you to stop.
— Rusty Dec 21, 07:43 PM #
Rusty, are you telling us the Constitution did not exist while Clinton was in office? Did cell phones exist 27 years ago when FISA was passed? Was Albores Internet invention being used for communication 27 years ago like it is today? I think it is time for us to buy many eggs because you neolibs will end up with a lot of rotten eggs on your face.
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— meridia Dec 21, 11:38 AM # - Senator Reid,
I appreciate your efforts to hold this shameful administration accountable, but I have to say that I think the US Constitution is in extreme peril. Please support Representative Conyers’s efforts to investigate this corrupt administration’s lies that involved us in Iraq. That is, add your voice to the rising crescendo for an investigation and impeachment, if warranted.
I’ve read the Constitution in Crisis and it is a devastating and frightening indictment of President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. If true, and I have no doubt that it is, impeachment is not only warranted, it’s absolutely necessary.
Our nation, our constitution, and our liberty are on life support with barely discernible vital signs. If we do not take up the gauntlet now and use the rule of law to defend our liberties, we will not have any liberties left to defend by 2008. In fact, we probably will not have a national election. Instead we will have martial law and coronation for King George I.
I suspect that you agree with me, at least privately. However, now is the time that everyone needs to speak out and support Representative Conyers. Together we can do it.
Sincerely,
Frederick Leatherman
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I note you only attack and do not answer any of the questions I asked. That proves I was correct and your posts are just parroted DNC slobberings.
— joro Dec 21, 02:33 PM # - Harry, a change to the Constitution is needed. Since President George W. Bush is doing such a fantastic job and has already earned the title of “Best President Ever” you should begin the process in Congress to remove the Constitutional term limitation so that he can serve us for as long as he wishes. Thank You for your prompt attention.
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