George Bush can't hide his own immigration failure
Apr 8, 07:56 PM | Harry Reid
In a week when President Bush was unable to convince House Republicans to pass his budget, was unable to convince Senate Republicans to pass immigration reform, and was caught misleading the American people about national security matters yet again, it’s no surprise that he would take a page from the Karl Rove playbook and blame Democrats to distract from his own troubles.
The fact is, President Bush and Senator Frist are flat out wrong about what happened to the immigration bill. Democrats are committed to comprehensive, bipartisan immigration reform. That’s why we voted twice last week in favor of it. It was President Bush and Republicans in Congress who lacked the backbone to stand up to the extreme right-wing of their party, filibustered reform twice in two days, and put partisan politics ahead of border security and immigration reform.
Comment
- Harry, I understand you are a member of the Church of the Latter Day Saints. What does your church say about your constant lying and skewing of facts?
— Kee Apr 8, 08:10 PM # - Nice work Harry… shift the blame around.
— chris Apr 8, 08:19 PM # - What are you going to do about the problem? We sent you back to Washington to fix the broken borders not to contribute. Fine don’t change the laws just enforce them. My 3 children go to school in Clark County. We pay alot of taxes and get so little in return. Our schools and hospitals are busted. But you wouldn’t know that because you work for DNC not Nevada.
— Judy Snider Apr 8, 08:35 PM # - Once again Mr. Reid, you have obstructed the Senate’s immigration legislation. It is clear you do not support law & order, at least for illegal aliens. Is the Hispanic vote more important to you? What happened to the immigration bill you sponsored in ‘93? It’s the same bill Frist submits and now you want to stop it. Quit pandering to Eastern elitists, quit flip flopping & quit obstructing legislation. That’s not what you got elected to do for us here in this great state of Nevada. Please resign, donate the Abramoff monies, we can’t take 4 more years of your obstructionism.
— lvdrummer Apr 8, 08:39 PM # - Simple problem to fix.
Go to the source and dry up the jobs.
All banks can run an INSTANT SSN check to make sure names match numbers.
First offense for an employer, CEO for hiring illegals….....$25,000.
Second offense for an employer, CEO for hiring illegals….....$50,000 and six months mandatory jail time.
This problem will be non-existant in 1 year.
Nobody has the balls to do this and buck big business.
Growers and farmers can use the Brasero program that is already in place, so your veggies and produce prices won’t be much higher than they are now.
— Poor Daddy Apr 8, 08:44 PM # - WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR? OBVIOUSLY IT;S NOT THE AMERICAN CITIZENS. WHO GAVE YOU A MANDATE TO GIVE AWAY THIS COUNTRY? WHAT IS IT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE WORD ILLEGAL?ILLEGAL AILIENS PUT A STRAIN ON OUR RESOURSES AND OUR CRIMMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. WHAT KIND OF IDIOT WOULD REWARD LAW BREAKERS? BUILD THE WALL HARRY,AND NO AMNESTY
— katherine presley Apr 8, 11:50 PM # - As usual the Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too. They are unhappy with the compromise bill, so want to introduce amendments to re-enforce their wishes. Harry Reid did the right thing. It is not necessary to designate illegal immagrants as felons, or to build a wall to contain our neighbors. Are the neocons now planning on going to war with Mexico? ...Again?
— linus Apr 9, 12:22 AM # - Most observers agree that Frist’s insistence on allowing introduction of numerous amendments reflected pressure from Senate conservatives unhappy with the compromise bill that he blessed this week.
Although virtually all Senate Democrats embraced that package, it appears that at most, little more than half the GOP caucus supports it. As a result, Frist faced strong demands from conservative critics to allow votes on amendments that would toughen the legislation’s enforcement provisions and narrow its legalization elements.
Repeatedly in recent years, the Senate has forged bipartisan agreements on issues such as energy policy, the Medicare prescription drug plan and renewal of the Patriot Act, only to see much more conservative approaches emerge from conference committees with the House.
Such a shift seems possible again because the House immigration legislation, drafted largely by Judiciary Committee Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.), would not create any guest-worker program or a route to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Instead, it focuses on tough enforcement measures, such as the building of a border wall and a provision designating illegal immigrants as felons.
— linus Apr 9, 12:30 AM # - In the previous thread, someone said that liberals seek the truth. If that’s the case, liberals like Reid are going about it in a long-winded, round-about way.
The reality is that Reid is lying. AGAIN!!! I will prove it later today.
— Steve Apr 9, 09:20 AM # - Both Lugar and Bayh currently support legislation that would allow some of the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country to legalize their status.
In a statement released by his press secretary, Bayh questioned the practicality of building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border and of tracking and expelling from the country the large number of people who lack legal status.
— marie Apr 9, 10:55 AM # - The immigration issue is just another example of how our political system is broken. Like many of the silent majority, I am so sick of politics getting in the way of elected officials doing what they know is right because of the threat of not getting re-elected. It has gotten to the point that anything said by either party can be twisted to the other party’s benefit. The competition between each party is so strong and effective that the nation has been split right down the middle, and I fear that we will never have a president that the vast majority of the people will approve of and support. Meaning that important issues like immigration will continue to be kicked around and watered down.
I’ve lived in AZ and Las Vegas for the last 49 years, and worked with companies along the border. I’ve read about the people dying and being taken advantage of while trying to cross. I see the effect illegal immigration has on our schools and health care system. And this has been going on for DECADES! I know some border agents, and you’ll never find a more demoralized group, that knows that they can never accomplish their mission because the system is badly broken. And unless our elected officials decide to make the hard decisions regarding important issues like immigration reform, without an eye toward political gain, our country will find itself with the same global influence as countries like France and Canada, and with a lost national identity.
I don’t pretend to have all of the answers, but I do know that the time to pass effective immigration reform is right now.
Just get it done!
— Laidlaw Apr 9, 12:45 PM # - I am in total agreement with POOR DADDY!!!
This problem is so simple to fix why can’t the pople WE sent to Washington see it? Is that the problem, the solution is too simple?
— Jjohnson Apr 9, 04:26 PM # - #12, Jjohnson….............
I believe the solution IS that simple. But both parties, especially the repubs, are answerable only to big business, not the people. Big business wants the cheap labor, both here and when they outsource all our manufacturing jobs.
It is no longer a free market, capitalist society. It is a corporatist society. “We, the people” have lost our country.
— Poor Daddy Apr 9, 05:09 PM # - When Reid says he’s working for bipartisan immigration reform, he’s fooling nobody with this nonsense. He’s the one who added, into the legislation, an amendment to allow kidnappers and burglars from amongst the illegal aliens to stay in this country.
But, Harry was never consistent on it anyway. In 1993, Reid said:
“Our borders have overflowed with illegal immigrants placing tremendous burdens on our criminal justice system, schools and social programs. The Immigration and Naturalization Service needs the ability to step up enforcement. Our federal wallet is stretched to the limit by illegal aliens getting welfare, food stamps, medical care and other benefits often without paying any taxes. Safeguards like welfare and free medical care are in place to boost Americans in need of short-term assistance. These programs were not meant to entice freeloaders and scam artists from around the world. “Even worse, Americans have seen heinous crimes committed by individuals who are here illegally.”
This past week, Reid said:
Mr. Reid yesterday disavowed that bill and his statements in support of it. And in an unusual, rambling confession on the floor of the Senate yesterday, he said it was the “low point” of his career.
A few days after introducing the bill in August 1993, Mr. Reid said in a near whisper as many senators looked on in amazement, his wife—the daughter of immigrants—confronted him after a meeting in Las Vegas and scolded him about his anti-immigrant views. She and other associates of his “pointed out the errors of my way” and ever since, Mr. Reid said, he’s favored a more inclusive approach to immigration reform.
His errant ways, he said, “for which I’m so apologetic to my family, mostly lasted about a week or two.”
Unfortunately, the case he makes about when he changed his mind isn’t entirely true, by about a year:
But seven months later, Mr. Reid introduced his bill again, according to Senate records. That bill was referred to the Judiciary Committee in March 1994.
Later that summer, he testified before the Judiciary Committee and advocated cutting legal immigration from 1 million people annually to 325,000.
“A gluttonous admission of new people every year will have a pernicious effect on our infrastructure and our environment,” Mr. Reid said, according to Associated Press reports at the time.
“We cannot continue to feed, clothe, house, educate and employ unlimited new populations,” States News Service quoted him saying.
Mr. Reid’s office said last night that his conversion occurred after the second time he introduced his bill but couldn’t give an exact time line.
Oh, that explains it; his conversion occurred after the second introduction of the old bill. Uh huh, right.
In his post, he accuses the President of having no backbone. This is funny coming from a man who proudly proclaimed “We killed the Patriot Act”, then voted for it a couple of months later.
— Steve Apr 9, 06:18 PM # - Immigration, Gary Marriage, & the Bay of Pigs
Today its immigration, last election cycle it was Gay Marriage. It smells like the Republicans are fishing for another wedge issue. However, it looks like the American People ain’t biting this time. Thank God!
Yes, illegal immigration is an issue. It has been an issue for a very long time. Still, there are many far more pressing issues.
It is a question of priorities. America needs to conduct an unbiased national threat analysis and attack threats in an intelligent, methodical manner. We can no longer afford ideologically driven policies to dominate America.
This threat analysis needs to focus on areas of greatest vulnerability. Following are a few examples: massive national debts, dependency on foreign sources of oil, environmental degradation, declining global standing in education, outsourcing, and debt held by foreigners, global warming, violent crime, war, terrorism, lack of protection for whistleblowers, etc. etc. etc.
To help avoid Group Think (Bay of Pigs Syndrome), designing and implementing strategic plans to combat America’s threats must be based on input from a wide range of professionals, outside of standard government agencies. Oversight can be covered via peer review and enforcing complete transparency.
For We the People the message to our politicians is this. We will be setting the priorities, Not You! It is time to throw the bums out of office and start over.
Pay Attention
ask questions
Speak UP!
Questionitnow
— REB 84 Apr 9, 10:32 PM # - Dear Liar Harry Reid:
What are you trying to do? I watched the hearings on C-SPAN, I listened to the floor debate, I watched the Senate vote. All of America that cares knows what happened. Why are you such a liar? Did you write the above lie filled diatribe or was it prepared by your high priced, illegal, tax paid communications gunners? Please do all of America a favor and resign.
— joro Apr 9, 10:33 PM # - As I said before Steve…You don’t understand Democratic or Liberal ways of thinking. I do on occasion check out right wing rags like the Washington Times, and biased web sites such as rightwingnews.com, but I want to know more about the subject, than is on neoconservative leaning blog sites, and Newspapers owned by the reverend Sun Yung Moon, with his right wing leanings, and his own little empire. Have you ever heard of Kahr arms…his son owns that, and moon owns news services in many parts of the world. Broaden your horizens, there is a lot of middle of the road info out there for you. I certainly hope you aren’t becoming a Moonie.
Here’s some middle of the road news from the Washington Post .
“Marches will only get you so far,” said Armando Navarro, coordinator of the National Alliance for Human Rights, a network of Hispanic activist groups in Southern California. “There has to be an electoral component to get the Republicans out of the majority.
********************************************
The Republicans had a good compromise bill, but they had to try to add amendments to it, that made it unpalatable to Harry Reid, and It looks like quite a few people from Mexico find it unpalatable too….
Thousands Rally for Immigrant Rights
By ANABELLE GARAY
The Associated Press
Sunday, April 9, 2006; 10:14 PM
DALLAS—Tens of thousands of people banged drums, waved U.S. flags and marched in a protest Sunday urging federal lawmakers to pass immigration reform that would legalize an estimated 11 million undocumented workers.
Shouting “Si Se Puede!” _ Spanish for “Yes, we can!” _ the marchers crammed into the downtown streets. They included families pushing strollers with their children and ice cream vendors who placed American flags on their carts. Many wore white clothing to symbolize peace.
— Lyle V Sansom Apr 9, 11:18 PM # - 7 As usual the Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too. They are unhappy with the compromise bill, so want to introduce amendments to re-enforce their wishes. Harry Reid did the right thing. It is not necessary to designate illegal immagrants as felons, or to build a wall to contain our neighbors. Are the neocons now planning on going to war with Mexico? ...Again?
———————————————————————————
Here’s some information about the wall…..
FactCheck.org
We Need A Fence?
October 20, 2005
A conservative group pushing for a $4-billion security fence along the Mexican border has run a TV ad showing the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center while claiming “illegal immigration from Mexico provides easy cover for terrorists.”
The ad identifies a real problem – scores of persons from Middle Eastern countries are caught each year trying to slip across the southern border, and many more doubtlessly go uncaught. But statistics show twice as many come across the Canadian border. And so far we have little or no evidence that any of them are terrorists.
Furthermore, all the 9/11 hijackers had visas and entered the US legally , mostly through Orlando, Miami, Washington, or New York. None came across the Mexican border. To that extent, the ad is misleading.
Hell no we don’t want a wall…
Givem Hell Harry
— Lyle V Sansom Apr 10, 12:40 AM # - #17 Lyle
“As I said before Steve…You don’t understand Democratic or Liberal ways of thinking.”
I’ve lived in the suburbs of Chicago all of my life and have seen the effects of Democrat policies. Since before I was born, there has always been a Democratic mayor of Chicago, and Democrats have always been in the majority in the rubber-stamp known as the Chicago City Council. As a result of the real power and influence the city government has over the state, Republicans have had to adopt many of the same policies in order to get any votes in the city and get elected to state offices. And due to the political machine mentality that drives Chicago’s politics (as it does in most major cities, which most have Democratic majorities), it has been impossible for conservative Republicans to make any inroads, and it has nothing to do with what they believe.
Case in point, although it is about a different Democratic stronghold, Maryland. Lt. Gov. Michael Steele is a conservative Republican running to be one of Maryland’s two senators (the seat being vacated by the retiring Paul Sarbanes, a Democrat). Steele is also black. Almost all of the other black politicians in Maryland are Democrats, and they are truly worried what might happen if Steele gets elected. He might be able to show that there is another option available for blacks in his state, that being a conservative Republican might be beneficial for all of Maryland’s people. As of this point, I haven’t seen one instance where Democrats seek to truly debate Steele, all they’ve done is try to smear him as some kind of sellout to the white man (this is what they said about Colin Powell, and continue to say about Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas). Even a member of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (run by Chuck Schumer) went so far as to commit identity theft by stealing Steele’s Social Security Number in order to do illegal background checks (Schumer says he wants strong enforcement of identity theft crimes, yet has said nothing about this case, nor has he apologized to Steele).
If this is the liberal or Democratic way of thinking, you can keep it.
— Steve Apr 10, 07:23 AM # - From “Powerline.com”
April 10, 2006
Warning: Sarcasm Ahead
Last Friday, the Bush administration released a Labor Department report that showed that employers added 211,000 jobs in March, and the nation’s unemployment rate has fallen still further, to 4.7%. Harry Reid responded by demanding an investigation:
The administration’s leak of the Labor Department report was clearly intended to make the Democrats’ complaints about the economy look stupid. We’re consulting with our lawyers to determine whether the leak of this report is an impeachable offense.
[Fake quote; humor intended.] This morning, it was reported that the Army has exceeded its reenlistment goal for the first six months of the 2006 fiscal year by 15%. Nancy Pelosi was outraged:
How dare the administration leak this highly sensitive report? Once again, the administration has leaked information that can only be designed to show that the Democrats’ effort to demoralize our troops has failed. We are calling for an investigation to get to the bottom of President Bush’s role in authorizing this leak.
[Fake quote; humor intended.]
— Kee Apr 10, 01:28 PM # - #18
As usual the Republicans want to have their cake and eat it too. They are unhappy with the compromise bill, so want to introduce amendments to re-enforce their wishes. Harry Reid did the right thing. It is not necessary to designate illegal immagrants as felons, or to build a wall to contain our neighbors. Are the neocons now planning on going to war with Mexico? ...Again?
— Lyle V Sansom Apr 10, 12:40 AM #
Reid and the soft on crime Democrats do not understand a simple word…illegal. Reid opposes amendments to legislation????? Somebody should inform Harry that that is what compromise and legislating is all about. If he does not approve of an amendment, vote against it but stop the stupid, childish filibustering for some filthy political purpose. Designating illegals as felons would exclude them from voting which would decimate the Democrats voter base. Tough!! Maybe the Democrat Party would then need to come up with an agenda that included ideas and solutions instead of buzz words and slogans full of empty promises.
— joro Apr 10, 03:13 PM # - From MSNBC website re protests. “I’m thinking about what they would do to my uncle if they catch him with us and send us to jail,” Jason said. “Basically, he wanted to come here to work with us to send money back home.”
Send our money to Mexico….Way to go Reid. Screw the middle class. I heard you on Schultz today…Are you going to bail out GM? Yeah, when pigs fly. You Dems are selling out the middle class with NAFTA, CAFTA, China and now illegals to drive down wages on the few jobs that we have left. Keep on screwin the middle class. We’ll vote Republican in 06, and then we’ll sneak into Mexico and demand beach property. Illegals marching in the freakin streets and you cowards Dems are catering to them. You’re just as corporate owned as Bush. If you can catch and jail 14.5 million illegal drug users, you ought to be able to catch and deport 11 million illegals.
— Oakland Apr 10, 03:48 PM # - #19
Steele is also black. Almost all of the other black politicians in Maryland are Democrats, and they are truly worried what might happen if Steele gets elected.
Black and white, democrat and republican…This is not what liberal is about. Extreme opposites should never influence our opinions. I have never thought that there was much difference in which party a person belonged to, untill the well planned Republican takover of congress during the Clinton administration, but what came about was an extreme view that separated the parties. Now, with the Bush administration, we are dealing with the deliberate takover of the senate, not to mention the neoconservative influence in the highest court in our country.
Mayland is Democratic, so Steele will probably not be elected, but from a liberal’s viewpoint, not because he was black. It’s like…What shade of black? Or…What shade of white? Or…What kind of Republican? Is he a neoconservative, and a part of the “One Voice”?
I believe you’re reaching a bit when you talk stealing a social security number. As far as I know, it is unconstitutional to do so, but it has been the most used identification in this country for many years. You are a name and social security number….SOoo fa
— Lyle V Sansom Apr 10, 04:00 PM # - 22 Oakland
And what about the Mexicans in the military?
The Bush
administration had established a fast track naturalization process
for foreign recruits in July 2002 as part of the “war on terror.”
Instead of waiting three years before applying for citizenship,
green-card holders in the armed forces who entered after
September 11, 2001 could apply immediately for citizenship.
Such offers are often granted in limited form during periods of
“military hostilities” (This week John McCain, Ted Kennedy,
and eight other senators introduced a
bill that would reduce permanently the waiting period from three
to two years and provide benefits for non-citizen spouses of
non-citizen soldiers killed in action).
Although the Bush Executive Order contained no guarantees
that citizen status would be granted or even expedited, the
rumor that automatic citizenship was being granted for military
service began to circulate in Latino communities both here and
abroad. The number of permanent resident enlistees jumped
from 300 a month before the fast track reform to 1,300 a
month. Mexican nationals reportedly flooded consulates
attempting to volunteer.
Both citizen and non-citizen recruits most often enlist as a way to
get an education, seduced by the recruiters’ promise of technical
training or money for college contingent upon an honorable
discharge. For the permanent residents who found themselves in
Iraq, their circuitous path to college carried them from Latin
America to the U.S.to Baghdad,
al-Nasiriyah, and Mosul. Some of them will not be attending
classes as they and their families had hoped. Instead they died in
the line of duty and subsequently received posthumous
citizenship amidst much fanfare and flag-waving.
Many in Latino communities, including some parents of the fallen
soldiers, sought refuge in traditional patriotic sentiments. The
father of colombiano Diego Rincón, an Army private killed in a
suicide bombing, was quoted as saying “The only thing that
keeps me going now is to make sure that he’s buried as an
American. That will be my dream come
true” (USA Today, 4/9/03).
— Lyle V Sansom Apr 10, 04:18 PM # - joro…You are being very naughty…you will have to take a time out. No cake for you untill you get real… take your nap now…nighty night
— Lyle V Sansom Apr 10, 04:31 PM # - #23…I believe you’re reaching a bit when you talk stealing a social security number. As far as I know, it is unconstitutional to do so, but it has been the most used identification in this country for many years. You are a name and social security number….SOoo fa
— Lyle V Sansom
++++++++++++++++++++
Lyle, you are living in a dream world. Schumers staffer admitted to it.
— Kee Apr 10, 04:48 PM # - The bottom line after all the discussion seems that either we want secure borders or we don’t want secure borders. If we want secure borders the only way we can have them on the southern border is to build a fence or bring the troops home and deploy them on the border . If we want conditions where people who are here ilegally can become citizens lets get on with the procedure and require them to follow the steps or go home. In the future we need a guest worker program that is not a path to citizenship.
This countrys government is sadly derilict in its duties and loyalty to the average working citizen. This level of incompetence and uncaring has never before been demonstrated in the history of the USA. When ilegal persons stand and thumb their nose at us something is wrong. It seems that the great uniter has accomplished a level of incompetence never before seen in the USA.
— coolinthem Apr 10, 05:23 PM # - It seems that the great uniter has accomplished a level of incompetence never before seen in the USA.
— coolinthem Apr 10, 05:23 PM #
Not without a lot of help from multitudes of naysayers including dingy Harry.
— Kee Apr 10, 06:22 PM # - #26
Lyle, you are living in a dream world. Schumers staffer admitted to it.
— Kee Apr 10, 04:48 PM #
Lyle and Linus are one and the same. Click on their signature line. You can’t trust a Democrat.
— joro Apr 10, 06:28 PM # - #27
It seems that the great uniter has accomplished a level of incompetence never before seen in the USA.
— coolinthem Apr 10, 05:23 PM #
We saw that incompetence in a greater degree during the miserable Clinton years when the majority of the illegals came here and the liberals demanded that they be provided with free education, free health care, welfare benefits and more recently, Hillary proposed free college educations for them.
— joro Apr 10, 06:33 PM # - #23 Lyle
“Mayland is Democratic, so Steele will probably not be elected, but from a liberal’s viewpoint, not because he was black.”
In a way, you’re correct. In this case, those in Maryland who consider themselves liberal Democrats are smearing steal because they want to protect their campaign funds and their jobs by any means possible; they may actually have to work for a living if they get thrown out of office. They’ve been able to keep their constituents poor for decades (look at the neighborhoods and public schools in Baltimore) by blaming all of their ills on everyone else, and the voters believe them. The constituents don’t have their lives get any better, but they still vote for the same old crappy politicians. How do I know this? I’ve seen this happen in Chicago for nearly 50 years. Same damn thing. As I said, the liberal Democrats in Maryland are afraid of Steele since he is a conservative Republican, someone with an alternative view, something that may cause the constituents to improve their lives, something they never got from the current liberal Democrats.
“I believe you’re reaching a bit when you talk stealing a social security number. As far as I know, it is unconstitutional to do so, but it has been the most used identification in this country for many years.”
I don’t think so. It is a serious crime. With it I can find all kinds of information on you that I should have no business knowing, and can use to be you on all kinds of things. This is a serious crime. Schumer knows about the incident, yet has never been called upon to address it and has not apologized to Steele.
— Steve Apr 10, 06:50 PM # - #29…. I know, I was going to ask “Lyle” if Linus let him use the blanky when he sucked his thumb.
— Kee Apr 10, 07:37 PM # - In America we are all immigrants. All, but the few represented by these words.
“Our chiefs are killed…The old men are all dead…The little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them have run away to the hills and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are, perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I can find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands I will fight no more forever.” – Chief Joseph
Of course today the rad-con republican hate mongers & race baiters in Congress would make it a felony to feed or clothe any cold and starving undocumented person who had run off to the hills.
And these people call themselves Christians? Where is the love?
— REB 84 Apr 10, 09:49 PM # - The third nuclear weapon used in war must not come from America.
Just the fact that here is a discussion at the highest level in America makes its execution against a non nuclear nation seem to be plausible. This president and administration are pulling out all of the stops in an effort to generate war fever against Iran.
For a parallel in History, think Czechoslovakia in WW II and Afghanistan. Think Iraq and Austria, and then think Poland and Iran.
Congress MUST stop this mad administration. The American People have no other Constitutional alternative.
Iran presents no threat to America. They have no Nukes. It will be at least 5 years and most likely 10 years before they can. They have some missiles and torpedos, but no targets worth throwing a missile loaded with high explosives to. The Russians are not going to give the Iranians a nuclear weapon capable of being aimed at Russia. The Iranians have no credible Navy. Our naval and air forces would completely destroy the Iranian naval capability before it ever got out of the Gulf. This could happen with these forces standing off far out of the range of Iranian weapons.
What reason does America have to go to War with Iran. The justifications and demonization of Iran is exactly the same stuff that was trotted out against Iraq. This is the President who cried Wolf. We won’t be fooled again.
— bill_o_carolina Apr 10, 10:02 PM # - Fake TV News – Widespread and Undisclosed.
http://www.prwatch.org/fakenews/execsummary
Over a ten-month period, the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) documented television newsrooms’ use of 36 video news releases (VNRs)—a small sample of the thousands produced each year. CMD identified 77 television stations, from those in the largest to the smallest markets, that aired these VNRs or related satellite media tours (SMTs) in 98 separate instances, without disclosure to viewers. Collectively, these 77 stations reach more than half of the U.S. population. The VNRs and SMTs whose broadcast CMD documented were produced by three broadcast PR firms for 49 different clients, including General Motors, Intel, Pfizer and Capital One. In each case, these 77 television stations actively disguised the sponsored content to make it appear to be their own reporting. In almost all cases, stations failed to balance the clients’ messages with independently-gathered footage or basic journalistic research. More than one-third of the time, stations aired the pre-packaged VNR in its entirety.
Report highlights include:
* KOKH-25 in Oklahoma City, OK, a FOX station owned by Sinclair, aired six of the VNRs tracked by CMD, making it this report’s top repeat offender. Consistently, KOKH-25 failed to provide any disclosure to news audiences. The station also aired five of the six VNRs in their entirety, and kept the publicist’s original narration each time.
* In three instances, TV stations not only aired entire VNRs without disclosure, but had local anchors and reporters read directly from the script prepared by the broadcast PR firm. KTVI-2 in St. Louis, MO, had their anchor introduce, and their reporter re-voice, a VNR produced for Masterfoods and 1-800 Flowers, following the script nearly verbatim. WBFS-33 in Miami, FL, did the same with a VNR produced for the “professional services firm” Towers Perrin. And Ohio News Network did likewise with a VNR produced for Siemens.
* WSJV-28 in South Bend, IN, introduced a VNR produced for General Motors as being from “FOX’s Andrew Schmertz,” implying that Schmertz was a reporter for the local station or the FOX network. In reality, he is a publicist at the largest U.S. broadcast PR firm, Medialink Worldwide. Another Medialink publicist, Kate Brookes, was presented as an on-air reporter by four TV stations airing a VNR produced for Siemens.
* Two stations whose previous use of government VNRs was documented by the New York Times, WCIA-3 in Champaign, IL, and WHBQ-13 in Memphis, TN, also aired VNRs tracked by CMD. The March 2005 Times article reported that WHBQ’s vice president for news “could not explain how his station came to broadcast” a State Department VNR, while WCIA’s news director said that Agriculture Department VNRs “meet our journalistic standards.”
more@link
— bill_o_carolina Apr 10, 10:19 PM # - #33 REB
You’re whole comment is just one more stupid, leftist rant.
#34 bill
“They have some missiles and torpedos, but no targets worth throwing a missile loaded with high explosives to.”
You do remember that, late last year, Ahmadinejad said he was interested in “wiping Israel off the map”. You trust Ahmadinejad and the mullahs, the same people who have been financing Hizbollah, through Syria, for decades? You trust them?
— Steve Apr 10, 10:57 PM # - I don’t trust anybody!
I believe Israel can take care of itself against Iran.
I don’t trust the PNACers and the shrub to tell me the truth about anything anymore and I don’t think the public does either. Do you?
— bill_o_carolina Apr 10, 11:04 PM # - 36. Who are you to critcise a constructive comment, that happens to be on a democratic blog site? Chief Joseph and the trail of tears, is one of the saddest commentaries on the exploitation of the American indian. There is an anology here with the Mexican people, who are being faced with being walled off from their home country, and are worried about such things as being able to visit their relatives.
Stupid?...I think not.
Well maybe they do have some targets in mind, but certainly not Israel. When Iran installs the Oil Bourse and begins accepting the Euro there will be some problems with the US dollar. But if Bush is thinking about using nuclear bombs in Iran, he is in for some real trouble. Those missiles are called sidewinders, and with DP warheads, will take out a large ship. You know….The straights of Hormuz, will be closed off for oil tankers, and the Persian Gulf would not be a healthy place for US war ships.
— Lyle V Sansom "linus" Apr 10, 11:37 PM # - OhioDem delivers this gem:
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS & SABRE RATTLING
The immigration issue has been an issue for a very long time. Prior to 1835, 3 million illegal immigrants from Africa were forcefully removed from their homes to become a source of cheap farm and domestic labor. The illegality of course was perpretated against the immigrants.
Congressman J.D. Hayworth, who was primarily hawking his book on Meet the Press Sunday morning, came out strongly in favor of the “Wall” to keep illegal immigrants out. The problem with creating a wall to keep people out is that it usually winds up being a wall to keep people in. This is unacceptable for America.
Mr. Hayworth went on to say, after plugging his book a couple more times that the biggest problem facing America is the illegal immigrant problem. I disagree. It is the illegal war started by the Bush administration that is killing our boys and girls in Iraq.
The second biggest problem is that the Bush administration is stirring up a campaign of fear, hatred and suspicion against Iran in an attempt to create war fever in a manner similar to the run-up to the Iraq war. Same stuff, Nuclear weapons, WMD, etc. It is all over our newspapers, local and national news media, right wing talk radio, and many other places, war planning for Iran is taking place.
By most rational accounts, Iran will not be nuclear capable for at least 5 years. There is time for diplomacy to work. Not Bush faux diplomacy as practiced by “Aluminum Tubes” Rice, or “I hate the UN” Bolton, or “Lean and Mean Military” Rumsfeld.
Will Congress fall for this again, or if on the off chance that they will not be fooled again, will the Bush admin fall back on the 2001 AUMF – Authority to Use Military Force – as the justification to go to war with Iran?
Will the Bush admin try to put the veneer of a UN Resolution to authorize war with Iran, or will they conclude, as they concluded that the UN would refuse to be used in this manner just prior to the Iraq war, and just decide to put our troops in Harm’s way, just to satisfy a desire for hegemony in the Middle East?
The full-court propaganda press for war with Iran is on. The time to say no is before it starts.
Pay Attention
ask questions
Speak Up!
QuestionItNow
— REB 84 Apr 11, 12:00 AM # - Is Love Leftist?
— REB 84 Apr 11, 12:08 AM # - #40
The radical, extreminst neo-lib left is full of hate.
— joro Apr 11, 12:46 AM # - Reb 84….......
Most people are too short sighted and focused on their immediate “blink of an eye” lifespan to look back at our history and realize we, as a country, and our government with it’s policies are not always right. Your trail of tears post is a perfect example of our official greed and lack of humanity.
The bush-worshipping trolls on this blog don’t have the ability to learn from history. They are like small, spoiled children, not wanting to share a small part of what is theirs in great abundance by the luck of the draw, by the random chance of being born on the north side of the border…...and so many people only want to blame the Mexicans. Put the blame where it belongs…....on the employers of illegals. Corporate and personal greed are the culprits. The mexicans just want to work and make their lives a little more tolerable.
We have had “illegal immigration” for decades and no one wanted to do anything about it. George’s corporate buddies would kick his ass if he didn’t push his “guest worker” program. Big business benefits big time from cheap labor.
But stay focused. This issue is being exploited, (just as the Mexican workers have been exploited) as a diversion from george’s lousy poll ratings, the disaster in Iraq, and the preparation for another disaster in Iran.
PNAC was a warning, a telegraphed punch by the neocons. We feel like we got sucker-punched, but it’s our own damn fault. We weren’t paying attention. We tend to get diverted from the real issues by listening to all the “3 stooges neo-clones” out there clamoring for our attention…. there’s hannity, limbaugh & o’reilly. There’s bush, cheney & rumsfeld. Shit, we’ve even got our mini stooges on this blog…..kee, joro & steve.
These idiots all talk with one demented, lying voice.
Fuck em all! They’re vampires sucking the life force out of America with their delusions of Empire.
— Poor Daddy Apr 11, 03:45 AM # - #37
“I don’t trust anybody!”
That is a fair statement, one which I agree with when it comes to politicians, of any party.
“I believe Israel can take care of itself against Iran.”
OK, but they are an ally. Plus, the US has heavy economic interests in Israel, as they do with us. What if they ask for help?
“I don’t trust the PNACers and the shrub to tell me the truth about anything anymore and I don’t think the public does either. Do you?”
I don’t believe you ever did. I don’t believe you ever accepted that Bush was elected President in 2000, or re-elected in 2004. Be that as it may, I believe the Anti-American Communist Lawyers Union-sponsored Democrats put defense of the nation or enforcement of its laws behind their pet social programs, as they’ve done since the 1960s, that have cost trilions and have very little to show for them.
— Steve Apr 11, 06:11 AM # - #38 Lyle
“Chief Joseph and the trail of tears, is one of the saddest commentaries on the exploitation of the American indian.”
REB attempted to compare this to the tragic Chief Joseph story. Apples and oranges and an idiotic way of trying to make his case. International A.N.S.W.E.R., one of the main groups sponsoring the illegal alien marches, uses this kind of twisted logic in order to pass themselves off as some kind of higher-than-thou peace group. It is an anti-American Communist group seeking all issues that will subvert the rights of all Americans. I’ve heard this all before and can spot it in a minute.
“Well maybe they do have some targets in mind, but certainly not Israel.”
People didn’t take Hitler seriously either, and look what happened.
And as far as the rest of what you say, it seems like you are rooting for the Iranians. You’ll say your not, but that’s not how I’m taking it.
— Steve Apr 11, 06:32 AM # - #39
“The immigration issue has been an issue for a very long time. Prior to 1835, 3 million illegal immigrants from Africa were forcefully removed from their homes to become a source of cheap farm and domestic labor. The illegality of course was perpretated against the immigrants.”
Wow. Tying today’s illegal aliens with the slavery of America’s past. How much does A.N.S.W.E.R., the IAC, or the ACLU pay you to put out drivel like this? What a joke.
#40
“Is Love Leftist?”
Based on what you put out, you don’t believe in love.
— Steve Apr 11, 06:39 AM # - Hate is not a Family Value.
— REB 84 Apr 11, 07:00 AM # - #42
“Put the blame where it belongs…....on the employers of illegals. Corporate and personal greed are the culprits. The mexicans just want to work and make their lives a little more tolerable.
We have had “illegal immigration” for decades and no one wanted to do anything about it. George’s corporate buddies would kick his ass if he didn’t push his “guest worker” program. Big business benefits big time from cheap labor.”
In general, I agree with what you say, and this is a part of the problem. And it isn’t just George’s corporate buddies, it is the corporate buddies of members of Congress of both parties. And Democrats have an additional reason that I’ll explain later.
The other problem is the government of Mexico itself. Since its independence from Spain in the 1820s and leaving out Benito Juarez (who was a great leader), the leaders of all of the Mexican governments have been horrible to its people. They’ve never encouraged the rise of any kind of middle class as was done here in the US. They’ve been pathetic in incorporating the rights of all of their people. And all this has led to the Mexican people to voluntarily leave Mexico (unlike the slaves) to come here, but doing so illegally instead of doing so properly. And like the arrogant pricks that they are, members of the Mexican government chastise US immigration policy.
And before any of the leftists say that corporations looking for cheap labor caused Mexico’s problems, forget it. I’ve heard it before. The Mexican government had a couple of long periods from which to develop an all-inclusive, liberal democracy (much like the US), and chose not to.
Now, as I stated earlier, it is correct to assume the Republicans (President Bush included) who want a more lenient immigration policy are doing this for the Wall St. crowd that wants cheap labor. Yet, the Democrats aren’t doing this out of any kind of good will. They’ve been trying to put in more expansive social and socialist policies (nationalized health care) than already exist (Social Security). The only way these things can be paid for in the short term is to either gut the military (like Clinton did) or raise taxes (also, as Clinton did, as well as Bush 41), or both. Yet, they aren’t learning from current history as France, with all of those things, stagnates with a 10+% unemployment (22% amongst young people, and over 50% amongst their immigrants), and no way to defend itself if attacked. All these policies do is make more poor people and will then force an increase in spending on welfare programs, along with the long-term increases that will come from the other items I mentioned. Like many Republicans, the Democrats have an ulterior motive that only screws everyone, especially middle-class Americans.
Border security first. With a wall, troops, more border agents, the states’ National Guard, I don’t care. Keep more from coming in to stop exacerbating the problem. Then properly figure out how to deal with the immigrants fairly.
And you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to Iran.
— Steve Apr 11, 07:36 AM # - By the way, those of you who believe we are going to nuke Iran, I have a question.
Do you believe Iran is a theocracy, where extremely religious (so-called) clerics decide the allowed rights of the people? Do you believe the Iranian theocracy is less of a threat to the civil rights of their people (they execute people for not following the mullahs’ interpretations of the Koran) than the threat to Americans’ civil rights by a theocracy conservatives supposedly want to establish and warned about by leftists? Explain why.
— Steve Apr 11, 07:53 AM # - #46
“Hate is not a Family Value.”
Then stop hating George Bush. I don’t hate Harry Reid. I don’t call for his death or his arrest. Look at all of my comments and you will not see that anywhere. I strongly oppose him because he’s been a hypocrite, and he’s feeding into the Bush-haters. Take his post here; Bush is actually on the same side as many of the Democrats. But instead of making even the sliver of an attempt to mention that, he just comes to feed more into his Bush-hating campaign supporters. It’s not that Bush is not a uniter, its that hypocrites like Reid are the dividers.
It’s liberals who are calling for Bush’s death. Both Al Franken (last year) and that idiot Ben Affleck are saying Bush should be executed for treason. As of right now, Bush hasn’t been charged with anything, and should still be considered innocent until proven guilty.
The only hate is coming from all the Reid supporters.
— Steve Apr 11, 11:12 AM # - Steve:
Most of you right wing nut cases wouldn’t know a conservative Democrat if they walked up and hit you! You are so far to the right now, it makes all the middle of the road people look like liberal’s! I have voted for Harry Reid several times now! Not because he is a liberal, because he isn’t! I don’t really care for his conservative politic’s! But, because he is a Democrat! I stopped voting Republican when they got so far out in right field they were catering to the “Religious Right”, big business and taking my rights away from me!
— Radical Femme Apr 11, 11:58 AM # - #50 Radical Femme
“I stopped voting Republican when they got so far out in right field they were catering to the “Religious Right”, big business and taking my rights away from me!”
Which rights have they taken away from you? I would seriously like to know.
— Steve Apr 11, 01:34 PM # - Here is my letter on election reform. What do you think of it Harry?
The enemy of freedom is unrestrained power.
In order to achieve the widest possible distribution of political
Power, financial contributions to political campaigns should be made by individuals and individuals alone to the candidates they are eligible to vote for in that election. There is no good reason for corporations to participate in politics. They are created for economic purposes and their activities should be restricted accordingly. The same applies to Lobby’s.
The reinstatement of the FCC regulations repealed by President Reagan and the use of public airways including cable can be designed to give all candidates equal time to become known to their potential electors. Removing the expense of paid airtime from campaigns will help all candidates. Using Public Broadcasting insures access to all constituents. A well-informed electorate is better served by vigorous debate on issues of concern than by mass marketed negative ads that have influenced previous elections.
The passage of H.R. 550: Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2005 is the first step in insuring the integrity of our voting system. Please go on-line and read the GAO report on our past elections. It is appalling. The lack of outrage or action speaks to our ignorance of these matters concerning DIEBOLD machines and the theft of the People’s Vote.
Again, the reinstatement of the FCC regulations will help to end the monopoly controlling the Main Stream Media, restoring fair and balanced News informing the public of these issues.
Corporate production of news should not be tolerated by a free society, as the nature of their business is economic profit it is stupid to think they will report against their self-interests.
Nothing will change until we change the system. What little power still resides with the People must be used by the people now to challenge our representatives to act by passing H.R. 550, reinstate the FCC regulations repealed by President Reagan and enact legislation to limit contributions to individual campaigns by individual eligible voters.
— iris ciabattari Apr 11, 02:14 PM # - #49 Most of you right wing nut cases wouldn’t know a conservative Democrat if they walked up and hit you! You are so far to the right now, it makes all the middle of the road people look like liberal’s! I have voted for Harry Reid several times now! Not because he is a liberal, because he isn’t! I don’t really care for his conservative politic’s! But, because he is a Democrat! I stopped voting Republican when they got so far out in right field they were catering to the “Religious Right”, big business and taking my rights away from me!
— Radical Femme
++++++++
I suggest that you reread post #49 and keep on reading it until you understand it.
Many people that can see right through Reids slander, are not Republicans. Did you support Bill CLinton? I have an acquaintence who claims to be a mainstream Democrat, he would not support Clinton because, in his mind, Clinton was way too conservative.
Remember, there are two sides to every coin.
— Kee Apr 11, 02:55 PM # - When a right winger has no argument, and logic is not possible, four things may happen:
1. Blame Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter.
2. Change the subject.
3. Attack the messenger
4. When all else fails, call the messenger a leftist, socialist or a Commie.
When they get to calling a critic a commie, they have nothing left.
1. Yesterday, President Bush blamed Bill Clinton for his troubles.
2. The Immigration debate, whose timing was directed by the Republican leadership/brain trust is a distraction away from what should be a vigorous and rigorous debate on the Bush administration’s runup to starting a war with Iran, despite the fact that the Bush administration has broken our military, caused the worst re-enlistment rate in a generation, caused thousands to leave the Reserves, failed to meet recrutiing goals and failed to finish the job in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
This is a changing of the focus of the national debate from a massive propaganda effort to foment war to an issue that could have been brought up at any time, because it has been an issue for at least 50 years.
Illegal Immigration is the Distraction. War with Iran is the real question. If the Republican leadership relly wanted to deal with illegal immigration, they had an agreement on Thursday. They broke the agreement on Friday by proposing dozens of amdendments on Friday, and somehow expecting that they would all be accepted without reading or debate? Give me a break. It is my opinion that the Republican leadership in Washington will NEVER agree to solve the illegal immigration problem, because it can always be there to fire up its shrinking base.
3. In this case, the messenger to be attacked is Harry Reid, because he stopped the voting because of the introduction of dozens of amendments that broke the agreement of Thursday. Republican amendments in the night always have suprises that in some way benefits the special interests that fund their elections, and work to screw the American People.
4. The group a.n.s.w.e.r., which until I read the above, I had never heard of, and I still do not know what the acronym means, is denounced as a commie. Then I am attacked as being on the payroll of a.n.s.w.e.r., the IAC (another one I do not know who they are), or the ACLU. I can assure you that I don’t know who the first two are, and I am not affiliated in any way with the ACLU and that includes contributing to the ACLU. I have never done it. Therefore, a.n.s.w.e.r is a commie, I am on their payroll, therefore I am a commie.
I have no evidence that can confirm or deny the first, the second part of this syllogism is simply wrong, therefore the conclusion is wrong as well.
As I said, if saying Clinton doesn’t work, which in this case it doesn’t, the changing of the subject, which seems to be working on a macro basis, but is not working with those who pay attention, most people are also immune to the kneejerk reaction of attacking the messenger, that leaves the commie response.
It won’t work either. America is on to the propagandist techniques used by the Bush/Cheney/Rove crowd. These tactics are becoming less effective each and every day. The MSM has lost most of their fear of this crowd, and their days are numbered. Congress will turn in November. The presidency will turn in 2008. Millions of moderate Republicans will turn away from the radicalized party which is in the control of an oppressive minority of Americans.
America will not give up its freedom. America will not give up its good sense.
America understands that the immigration issue is the distraction away from the REAL issue of War and Peace.
War with Iran is the issue. Immigration is not.
— Ohiodem1 Apr 11, 02:58 PM # - Steve:
The right to be homosexual or lesbian and to marry! The right to end my life if I am terminally ill. The right to have an unhampered abortion without being harrassed by religious protesters! The right to have access to birth control my doctor has prescribed without a pharmacist refusing to fill it because he doesn’t believe in birth control! A right to the morning after pill without getting a sermon! I am certain by the time your buddies get through it will be illegal in the US again! The right to live in a country that is truly a democracy and my belief’s are respected! The right to live in a country where someone else’s religious belief’s aren’t shoved down my throat daily! The right to not be religious and not called names! What ever happened to the good old days when a President kept his mouth shut about his religious preferrances? The right to be a war protester without a paranoid President listening in on my phone calls! The right to a decent President who see’s himself as Ghengis Khan and isn’t running amok in the middle east! The list goes on and on! It’s only a small sampling!
— Radical Femme Apr 11, 03:02 PM # - #54
I asked these before, but nobody answered me:
“Do you believe Iran is a theocracy, where extremely religious (so-called) clerics decide the allowed rights of the people? Do you believe the Iranian theocracy is less of a threat to the civil rights of their people (they execute people for not following the mullahs’ interpretations of the Koran) than the threat to Americans’ civil rights by a theocracy conservatives supposedly want to establish and warned about by leftists? Explain why.”
I’ll add one more. Adolf Hitler, in Mein Kampf said he wanted to remove Jews and other people in order to create lebensraum for the German people. Similar to Hitler, Ahmadinejad has threatened to wipe Israel off the map. Do you believe he will carry out his threat? Explain why or why not.
I’m not sure who your reading about the military recruitment stuff, but the military says the opposite.
And, apparently, you were the one who tried to tie the slavery of the past to the illegal aliens who volunteer to break our laws in order to find work here in the US. That is a completely BS argument by anybody who makes it. These are the arguments being used by the A.N.S.W.E.R. and IAC crowd. If you don’t know who they are, then maybe you should find out.
— Steve Apr 11, 03:20 PM # - REID’S APPROVAL NUMBERS PLUMMET
A new poll of Nevadans show that Reid’s approval is dropping like a ton of bricks. His lies and anti-American positions are catching up with the incompetent Senator from Nevada who caters to the immoral Eastern elitist liberals such as Schumer, Kennedy, Hillary etc. I am sure Reid’s refusal to take action against his fellow Democrats who have committed treason, leaked data that hurt America, told lies repeatedly and his whining inability to lead are causing his drastic drop in approval.
— joro Apr 11, 03:42 PM # - New Seniors Survey.
A new survey and interviews with seniors published yesterday reveals huge approval of the Bush and Republicans Prescription Drug Plan. This fantastic plan is saving seniors thousands of dollars annually. There were initial start up problems as there would be with any major undertaking that involves millions of people but those problems have been generally resolved and many millions of seniors are very happy with the plan. This should certainly cause all seniors to vote for Republicans this fall as there is no way Democrats or Reid can take any credit for this plan that they badmouthed and voted against from the start. Brochures issued by Reid and the Democrats unnecessarily added to seniors confusion. Clinton could not solve this problem that according to Gore had the seniors eating dog food so they could buy life saving prescriptions. President George W. Bush and the Republicans cleaned up this Clinton mess too.
— joro Apr 11, 03:53 PM # - #55
“The right to be homosexual or lesbian and to marry!”
You have the right to be a homosexual or lesbian. If you want the right to marry, get your legislators to adopt it or Congress to add it as amendment to the Constitution. Even if an amendment exists to allow marriage as it exists today, it can be repealed (Prohibition was repealed).
“The right to end my life if I am terminally ill.”
You can do that now. You want the right for someone else to do it. They have this in Oregon. See my previous answer.
“The right to have an unhampered abortion without being harrassed by religious protesters!”
That’s a violation of the protesters’ First Amendment right of free assembly. Get over it.
“The right to have access to birth control my doctor has prescribed without a pharmacist refusing to fill it because he doesn’t believe in birth control! A right to the morning after pill without getting a sermon!”
This is a good point. There is a case in Illinois where Gov. Blagojevich is getting sued by a group of pharmacists since he issued an executive order for doing this. The results of the case may answer your question. But, personally, I would say treat the morning after pill like cigarettes. Heavily regulate them and sell it over-the-counter; you want to use it, then its your choice regardless of the consequences; keep doctors and pharmacists from being sued. If your doctor believes you shouldn’t get pregnant, then they already have ethically medical procedures to handle it. In case your wondering why I would even say this, I’m very conservative on many things, but not a member of the religious right. And I don’t want to have to pay anymore than I already do for any problems you create for yourself. I would assume you don’t want to pay for mine.
“The right to be a war protester without a paranoid President listening in on my phone calls!”
Unless you have contacts with al Qaeda terrorists, nobody is listening to your calls. Your the one who is paranoid.
— Steve Apr 11, 04:16 PM # - Iran is a theocratic dictatorship. Iraq under the Baathist regime was a secular dictatorship. Blending the words of theology and democracy is not an accurate characterization of the situation that exists in Iran. Rule by an established religion exists in quite a few countries around the world, and in general, each is a disaster for the people who live under those systems. If you want an argument from me if I think that the establishment of a state religion is inconsistent with human rights, you will not get it.
The established religious government in Iran poses no threat to the freedom of the citizens of United States of America. The threat to the freedom of the citizens of the United States of America comes from within.
The First Amendment to the Constitution expressly prohibits the establishment of a state religion. Some members of the legislature in Missouri apparently did not read that part of the Constitution. A legislator in that state has introduced an unconstitutional bill to establish “Christianity” as the official religion of Missouri, despite the fact that the state is home to Jews, Wicans, Muslims, Scientologists, Buddists, Sikhs, Hindis, and probably others that do not subscribe to Christ as a diety.
This also raises the question of what kind of Christian is the “real” Christian that is contemplated by the Missouri bill. Is it Roman Catholics, or Greek Orthodox? Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians? Maybe it is the Church of Christ or Christian Scientists, because they have Christ in their names. That must make them better Christians than the other ones. Right?
Steve, I cannot answer your first question. Why don’t you answer it for us?
Question 2 – Ahmadinegad has made his blustery and hateful statement about wiping Israel off the map. Does he have the capability to do it? No. Does he have nukes? No. Do you think that Israel does not have the capability to defend itself from Iran? Do you think Israel will not do a pre-emptive strike against Iranian nuclear sites, similar to what they did against Iraq when they felt threatened? In fact, he does not have the capability to destroy Israel, and Israel will defend itself vigorously if they feel threatened. Ahmadinegad knows this and will be restrained by the mullahs if their existence is threatened. That is why he will not do it. Since he cannot effectively threaten Israel, why is the Bush administration pounding the drums to start a war with Iran. Do not forget that Iran has a reasonably effective military, with modern weapons and a will to fight that was lacking on the part of the Iraqi army. Iran has 75 million vs the 25 million of Iraq. They will fight. Are you willing to send tens of thousands of our soldiers to fight and die in Iran, just because our national leadership seeks hegemony in the Middle East. What is next after Iran, how about Syria? What about Saudi Arabia? Do you really want a holy war against 1.3 Billion people? I don’t.
The Army reduced their recruiting goal last year to match the reduced number of recruits. Therefore the goal was reduced to hide the fact that enlistments are down dramatically. The Navy released a statement yesterday that academy trained officers were leaving the Navy at the first opportunity in larger numbers than in previous years. The National Guard is offering large enlistment incentives, and they are not being taken. The Marines did not meet quota last year for the first time in many years. Read the papers. You will see that what I say here is true. Don’t listen to Rush Limbaugh. Be curious. Look elsewhere for news. You may be surprised. Google military recruitment.
On the question about the tying slavery of the past to illegal aliens of today, you misinterpreted the meaning of the comment. The point is that illegal immigration in America started in 1619.
Look at immigration in America. In the 1830’s and 1840’s a flood of Germans hit our shores. Before that Irish due to the potato famine. Polish and Irish immigrants made the steel, Chinese immigrants, many illegal, built the railroads. Lithuanians, French, Slavs of all Eastern European nations, Japanese, you name it, they all came. That is why America is called a Melting Pot. Each wave of immigration generated the same noise we hear now about Hispanic and Muslim immigrants. Each generation learned English, and was assimilated into the American culture. Each ethnic group retained some part of their old world culture, and shared it with other Americans.
The noise was “they are taking over”, “they are taking our jobs”, “they speak another language”. “How dare they put signs up in Italian” or Chinese, or Russian”? Now its “they are taking our jobs, they speak another language, how dare they put signs up in a language they know how to read?
Legislating against human nature never works. Legislating against the movement of history never works. The Germans rounded up 6 Million Jews and loaded them on the trains.
Do you propose loading up 12 Million Hispanics on the trains?
Finally, only some groups of illegal Hispanics are subject to this form of discrimination. Cubans, who look European and vote Repubican are welcomed with open arms. Hatians are rejected. Mexicans, who generally vote Democratic when they become citizens are rejected. If the Hispanic illegals want to come in and become Republicans, Frist and Sensenbrenner would be falling all over themselves to legalize them.
Tens of millions of Americans who are here now are the progeny of illegal ailens. Was every immigrant to America in the 1800’s documented, or did they go through Ellis Island or some other official immigration point? Did some slip across the border from Canada? Did some come in through Louisiana, or pre-statehood California? Of course the answer is of course not. Our economy runs on cheap labor and always has. Your standard of living will go down if we do not have this supply. It is time to recognize the obvious. Hardworking people who are not causing trouble should be on the citizenship track.
Why don’t you tell those of us who are uneducated about the immigrant organizations so we can all know?
— Ohiodem1 Apr 11, 04:41 PM # - #60
I will answer, but don’t have time right now (you put a ton out there). Come back later tonight or tomorrow morning.
— Steve Apr 11, 04:51 PM # - #60
But I will knock out a few I can do right away.
“Rule by an established religion exists in quite a few countries around the world, and in general, each is a disaster for the people who live under those systems. If you want an argument from me if I think that the establishment of a state religion is inconsistent with human rights, you will not get it.”
No argument from me. I absolutely agree.
“This also raises the question of what kind of Christian is the “real” Christian that is contemplated by the Missouri bill. Is it Roman Catholics, or Greek Orthodox? Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians? Maybe it is the Church of Christ or Christian Scientists, because they have Christ in their names. That must make them better Christians than the other ones. Right?”
According to South Park, the correct religion is Mormon. (Yes, I mention this for humorous reasons.) To me, the best Christians are the ones follow the US Constitution, and pass laws that pass the muster of the Constitution.
“Cubans, who look European and vote Repubican are welcomed with open arms.”
I’ll ignore the racist implication of your statement as there are many, many Cubans who are black. The Cubans who manage to get here ask for asylum from a brutal regime and a stupid dictator who refuses to die. Either Castro lets them go, or the people have to escape the island. Either way, it’s a very small amount (except when he through out his criminals to us in the early 1980s). Recently, a group of these kinds of Cubans, in a boat, were returned to Cuba because they landed on a bridge being repaired that wasn’t touching US soil. It was a tragic technicality that probably landed these people in a Cuban jail (and perhaps tortured and/or killed).
Asking for asylum is a legal form of immigration.
I’ll have to get back to you later on the rest of my responses.
— Steve Apr 11, 05:24 PM # - #50
I have voted for Harry Reid several times now!
— Radical Femme Apr 11, 11:58 AM #
I often wondered how this liar was able to win any election. Your admission of voting several times explains more of Reid’s corruption.
— joro Apr 11, 08:02 PM # - #52
— iris ciabattari Apr 11, 02:14 PM #
Did you know ABC has not yet reported on the Cynthia McKinney attack on a police officer as reported on CNN? Why did you not advocate excluding Labor Unions and anti-American special interests such as the Sierra Club, the ACLU or Planned Parenthood from contributing? Why do you attack only corporations which are the backbone of our economy providing jobs and wealth to hundreds of millions? Why hasn’t Harry Reid donated the almost $70,000 of reported dirty Abramoff connected money to charity an many others have done?
— joro Apr 11, 08:11 PM # - #54
When they get to calling a critic a commie, they have nothing left.
— Ohiodem1 Apr 11, 02:58 PM #
I suggest you read the Communist Manifesto of 1848, then read the Democrat Party Platform and compare the two. They are practically identical except for the platform having been updated to English currently being used.
— joro Apr 11, 08:18 PM # - #56
These are the arguments being used by the A.N.S.W.E.R. and IAC crowd. If you don’t know who they are, then maybe you should find out.
— Steve Apr 11, 03:20 PM #
Is A.N.S.W.E.R. another Commie Soros organization? I did not see one persons name associated with them. Democrats follow some strange idols.
— joro Apr 11, 08:31 PM # - #55
The right to have access to birth control my doctor has prescribed without a pharmacist refusing to fill it because he doesn’t believe in birth control! A right to the morning after pill without getting a sermon!
— Radical Femme Apr 11, 03:02 PM #
Apparently you do not believe in the rights of others if you demand they sell certain harmful products to you. Use the morning after pill at your own risk. According to this mornings paper, women are dying after using the abortion pills.
— joro Apr 11, 08:39 PM # - As Rachel Maddow noted on her program today (she provided some juicy sound bites), George Bush somewhat incoherently cited this very letter yesterday during a Q-and-A session with students at Johns Hopkins.
In 2004, we intercepted a letter from Zarqawi to Osama bin Laden. In it, Zarqawi expressed his concern about “the gap that will emerge between us and the people of the land.” He declared “democracy is coming.” He went on to say, this will mean “suffocation” for the terrorists. Zarqawi laid out his strategy to stop democracy from taking root in Iraq.
Bush said these words on the same day the Post story identified this letter as the product of an American psyops team!
Incidentally, the official transcript has been massaged. In the original sound bite, as played by Maddow, Dubya’s tongue slipped: He referred to this message as a letter we wrote as opposed to one Zarqawi wrote.
— bill_o_carolina Apr 11, 09:04 PM # - #60
The Army reduced their recruiting goal last year to match the reduced number of recruits. Therefore the goal was reduced to hide the fact that enlistments are down dramatically. The Navy released a statement yesterday that academy trained officers were leaving the Navy at the first opportunity in larger numbers than in previous years. The National Guard is offering large enlistment incentives, and they are not being taken. The Marines did not meet quota last year for the first time in many years. Read the papers. You will see that what I say here is true. Don’t listen to Rush Limbaugh. Be curious. Look elsewhere for news. You may be surprised. Google military recruitment.
— Ohiodem1 Apr 11, 04:41 PM #
You must get your false information from Al Franken or George Soros. When clinton came into office, we had 1,985,555 active duty military. When he left, we were down to 1,384,338. The mass exodous and clintons failure to get recruits was because the draft dodger was despised by our military. I still see the Marine stationed at the helicopter always dissing clinton and the idiot clinton did not know the difference. Contrast that picture to the sharp salute and respect accorded our President and Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush today.
— joro Apr 11, 09:10 PM # - #68
Bush said these words on the same day the Post story identified this letter as the product of an American psyops team!
— bill_o_carolina Apr 11, 09:04 PM #
And you believe the Washington Post!!!!! How gullible can you get?
— joro Apr 11, 09:16 PM # - FYI…
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N10395950.htm
— bill_o_carolina Apr 11, 09:22 PM # - You believe Rush (the junky) Limbaugh, don’t you?
Nuff said!
— bill_o_carolina Apr 11, 09:25 PM # - WASHINGTON – Key figures in a phone-jamming scheme designed to keep New Hampshire Democrats from voting in 2002 had regular contact with the White House and Republican Party as the plan was unfolding, phone records introduced in criminal court show.
The records show that Bush campaign operative James Tobin, who recently was convicted in the case, made two dozen calls to the White House within a three-day period around Election Day 2002 — as the phone jamming operation was finalized, carried out and then abruptly shut down.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_go_pr_wh/elec…
— bill_o_carolina Apr 11, 09:34 PM # - #60
“Question 2 – Ahmadinegad has made his blustery and hateful statement about wiping Israel off the map. Does he have the capability to do it? No.”
Back in the day when Neville Chamberlain realized that “peace in our time” ended on September 1, 1939, Hitler needed an army of at least a million men (and it got larger as the war went on) in order to be a credible threat. Now, only one terrorist or a handful of terrorists are needed, with fake ids, papers, and cell phones. Not only that, Ahmadinejad doesn’t even have to call on his own Iranian people to do it. Ahmadinejad has the scum in Hizbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad to do what he wants, and he can supply the weapons. They are the delivery system. Not only that, 9/11 showed how weak border security (and at airports and at seaports) allowed 19 pieces of garbage kill 3000. So far, senators of both parties, along with President Bush (and this really frustrates those of us who voted for him), seemed to be more concerned with pandering to people who can’t even vote for them. (I mentioned in a previous comment why Democrats are worse about this.) This could happen again by Iranian or Iranian-backed terrorists. The 27-year Iranian regime feels no need to follow international law; they still have an outstanding contract, through a “fatwa”, to have Salman Rushdie killed.
“Ahmadinegad knows this and will be restrained by the mullahs if their existence is threatened. That is why he will not do it.”
You’re assuming Ahmedinejad and the mullahs are rational people, like Chamberlain thought Hitler was rational. The cost for this belief, 80,000,000 dead. The statements coming out of these religious nutjobs are not the statements of responsible politicians, worried about the welfare of their own people.
“Since he cannot effectively threaten Israel, why is the Bush administration pounding the drums to start a war with Iran.”
Did you stop to think that maybe, just maybe, Bush knows what he’s doing here? By comparison, you and I know nothing about what’s going on behind the scenes. And if he’s “pounding the drums”, perhaps its to scare Ahmadinejad and/or the mullahs to death, or at least get them to blink, much like JFK did to Khruschev in October, 1962.
“Iran has 75 million vs the 25 million of Iraq.”
Here’s the good news. Based on a lot of information I’ve read, somewhere between 35 and 40 million Iranians (70% of which are young men, at or below the age of 30) want Ahmadinejad and the mullahs out of power, and may be willing to start a revolt. They know Iran is in a state of perpetual stagnation and want to get back into the world again. This needs to be encouraged, and has already started on the small scale. There have been two attempts on Ahmadinejad’s life in soutwestern Iran, where most of that section of the country is made up of Arabs, not Persians. It’s also where a great amount of Iranian oil exists. The government has not been pleasant to the Arabs in these areas and they might be fed up enough to start an uprising.
“What is next after Iran, how about Syria? What about Saudi Arabia? Do you really want a holy war against 1.3 Billion people? I don’t.”
Hate to break the news to you, but radical Islamist imams have already declared one. Those religious clowns from Denmark, who went to an Islamic conference to get an expression of “outrage” going about the cartoons? Well, they did it with a lie. In their presentation (yes, I’ve seen the book they brought; it was on a 60 Minutes segment), not only did they bring in the Jyllands-Posten cartoons, but included some fakes as well. One of these fakes was a scratched up AP photo from a French hog-calling contest and these religious hacks tried to pass it off as a “Muhammed” picture. And hardly any news organization will even carry that part of the story. It’s a real scandal, and the western media have been too cowardly to tell people about it.
These imams carry a lot of political power amongst their communities and increasing it in the countries they live in. They are actively seeking to destroy freedom of speech, with threats of violence, whereever they go, and to implement sharia into those countries’ laws. They’ve succeeded in America with regards to the cartoons since the big media outlets (with the exception of Fox News on the TV side) won’t even report on the scandalous fakes.
I am not chastising Muslims or Islam here. 99.9% of Muslims want to do what we do: live our lives and raise families. Unfortunatly, .1% is 1.3 million out of the 1.3 billion. Does that mean we wipe them all out? Of course not. What it does mean is that we marginalize the worst of them as much as possible, and come down hard when they commit violent crimes, such as causing violent riots or acts of terrorism.
I’ll finish the rest of my reply to you tomorrow.
— Steve Apr 12, 12:28 AM # - #68
bill, I think you could get a job as a reporter…on al-Jazeera. You do great propaganda for terrorists. Maybe you could some for neo-Nazi group or Kim Jong Il on the side.
— Steve Apr 12, 12:43 AM # - #69 – “You must get your false information from Al Franken or George Soros. When clinton came into office, we had 1,985,555 active duty military. When he left, we were down to 1,384,338. The mass exodous and clintons failure to get recruits was because the draft dodger was despised by our military. I still see the Marine stationed at the helicopter always dissing clinton and the idiot clinton did not know the difference. Contrast that picture to the sharp salute and respect accorded our President and Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush today.”
You may recall that the Clinton admin implemented the Bush 41 plan to implement the Peace Dividend, transform our military forces to a leaner, more nimble force capable of prevailing in Assymetrical combat operations.
I will resist the temptation to say that the Bush military draft dodger who refused combat duty in Vietnam (he checked the box that refused foreign assignments), then deserted when drug tests became mandatory for pilots is not getting the respect of the rank and file military.
The Marine guard for the President always renders the snappy salute, and they did it for Clinton as well.
And finally this is returning to Point 1 of 54 – Blame Clinton or Jimmy Carter, even if it is happening on Bush’s watch.
Regarding the source of my information, it is not Franken or Geroge Soros. I read the newspapers, a wide variety of sources, including the Project for the New American Century, and their 2000 Strategic Planning paper in which they advocate emasculating the Navy, reducing the existing 12 Carrier Navy to an 11 Carrier Navy, eliminating the F-22 program, and having the Marines rely on the unsafe V-22 Osprey aircraft.
If you don’t believe me, read this:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
Then look at who signed the documents, and in fact all of the documents at the PNAC site. These guys are in charge now. If you want to find the next war targets, read that paper. Did you know that there are 7 major pinch points, for which if naval control is not maintained, world commerce would just stop. Just one of them, the Straits of Malaca (sp) near SE Asia would cut off the flow of oil to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore Hong Kong and many other places. With a 11 carrier Navy, we would be incapable of protecting more than 3 or 4 of these pinch points. Two of them relate to bottling up the Russian Navy.
Out.
— Ohiodem1 Apr 12, 07:41 AM # - #60
“Do you propose loading up 12 Million Hispanics on the trains?”
Nope. Not the way you imply. Is there any reason the US government shouldn’t demand the Mexican government pay the bills for medical care needed by the illegals, which we are required to provide? Is there any reason the US government shouldn’t demand the Mexican government pay a “per student per day” equivalence to cover the education we are required to provide? Here’s my problem with all of this. Nobody is chastising the pathetic Mexican government to fix their problems. If the illegals get the right to vote here, do they still retain the right to vote in Mexico? If so, I want to vote in the Mexican elections and throw any leftist politician or any in Fox’s party that is tied to corruption. Is that too much to ask? Yeah, but that’s what is being demanded of the illegals here.
“Tens of millions of Americans who are here now are the progeny of illegal ailens. Was every immigrant to America in the 1800’s documented, or did they go through Ellis Island or some other official immigration point?”
Apples and oranges. There were different laws back then, and you’re trying to base your argument on today’s laws. Just like when you say:
“On the question about the tying slavery of the past to illegal aliens of today, you misinterpreted the meaning of the comment. The point is that illegal immigration in America started in 1619.”
1) No, I didn’t misinterpret its meaning; I heard it from a couple of the speakers at one of the rallies and was ready to throw my shoes at the TV; and 2) hell, why don’t you just go back to 1492? I mean, that is the argument Ward Churchill has made as well.
“Why don’t you tell those of us who are uneducated about the immigrant organizations so we can all know?”
Neither A.N.S.W.E.R. nor the IAC are immigrant organizations, but they have heavily sponsored some of the groups in these rallies. Both are Communist organization holdovers from the 1960s. A.N.S.W.E.R. tries to pass itself off as an anti-war group, but they support socialist and Communist causes (one of their best friends is Kim Jong Il). The IAC has been led pretty much by one of the most dishonorable people America ever produced, Ramsey Clark. There’s a tie between the groups, but I don’t know the details (nor care). I think they also have cornered the market on T-shirts that display a picture of that rotting pig carcass, Che Guevara.
Rushed. Gotta go.
— Steve Apr 12, 08:50 AM # - OT
It’s been reported today that Patrick Fitzgerald issued a correction to what he said last week regarding the NIE. Prior to the correction, Democrats and leftists tried to nail the administration due to Fitzgerald’s information from last week. The correction refutes everything that was claimed.
Anybody wanna guess when Reid is going to issue a correction from his previous post? Are we going to hold our breath (I wouldn’t recommend it)? Bueller? Bueller?
— Steve Apr 12, 10:58 AM # - Go Hang yourself you self rightous SOB. You don’t care about the America people, all you care about is votes!!! Forget Immigration Reform…get them the hell out!!! You don’t want the real American citizens to take matters into our own hands, I can promise you if those people are legalized, with no punishment, you will have another revolution on your hands!!!
— USCitizen Apr 13, 07:03 PM # - Give them hell Harry!
Bush passing the blame on you.
What a joke!
I like the part when you told bushco you were wrong on everything you have done don’t speak down to me…
Besides that who has been watching the borders all the time the last 5 years?
Passing the blame onto you does not work…
His parasites follow the drum beat attacking you but they should be attacking bush and walmart and all the other good bushco companies for hiring them in the first place…
You will win reelection here…
Steve in Henderson…
— Steve Apr 14, 02:22 AM # - #80
You will win reelection here…
Steve in Henderson…
— Steve Apr 14, 02:22 AM #
Jim Trafficant, the Congressman the Clinton’s put in jail, tried to run for election from prison too.
Happy Easter.
— joro Apr 14, 09:57 PM # - Jim Trafficant, the Congressman the Clinton’s put in jail, tried to run for election from prison too.
Excuse me?
Whats that got to do with bushes and all the republican errors on immigration?
Stay on topic are get the hell off this board!
The topic is immigration and what we are going to do about it.
Why can’t you discuss a issue?
All you do is blame everyone else or change the subject!
What is your plan for immigration Mr know it all?
Your a typical distorter and Harry Reid will be elected in Nevada as long as he wants!
Happy Easter to you as Well!
— Steve Apr 15, 02:53 AM # - The President has the authority to enforce our current immigration laws. The President authority has to pardon anyone. The GOP controls the House. The GOP controls the Senate. The GOP controls court appointments. The red meat, red state GOP base is unhappy and wants to demonize and deport all the undocumented workers. Part of the GOP wants to legalize them and reach out to Hispanic voters. The President is trapped between these two incompatible GOP groups. There is an easy way to hide this: blame Harry Reid.
My own view is strongly pro-immigrant.
“Probably the number one misconception about immigration is that it harms our economy. In reality, conservative estimates put the net gain to the U.S. economy from current immigration at about $20 billion.”
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1641
I would like to see regularized borders that recognize this economic reality and the human dignity of immigrants including amnesty and a path to citizenship for the millions of hard working immigrants who have built and who are building this country.
Let us celebrate Passover and Easter with a Presidential pardon for millions of workers and their families.
— Leo Brown Apr 15, 03:28 PM # - #83 My own view is strongly pro-immigrant.
There s a huge difference between “pro-immigrant and “pro-illegal alien”
— Kee Apr 15, 06:08 PM #
commenting closed for this article